Wanted to try the bullhorns to see if I could ride the V more with a bum shoulder. Did a short 10 mile ride today and the answer is yes.Jack
More pictures from more angles, please.
Ok Charles look for them tomorrow.
Heres a few more
Very smooth there Jack.
Bullhorn bars make you ride more efficiently and therefore faster. Its a more aero position.
very nice, Jack.
Can you get a close up of your hands'wrists? It looks like it supports your wrists, too (almost like Ken's wrist supports, but built in).
I'm getting more interested in the bullhorns too.
I was also wondering about the wrist positioning that she comments about at (1:11) which I think is also related to how she states she, "has to kind of sit up and crank that thing up", when shifting the front crank rings (1:39)
I re-did the cabling to reduce tension on the FD shifter, and I've modified a pair of bullhorn bars specifically to better suit Maria's needs. I narrowed them, and let the grips turn in a little more, so the hand is now a little more flat. We'll be testing this weekend.
Ergonomics is so important. What is okay for three hours might need improvement for 24 hours, and if you get it right for 24 hours you'll get better performance for three hours. So adjustments on reach and height is very important, I believe.
So, about the bull horn bars, most are using drop bars on Vendetta rather than the bullhorn bars. I'm confident this will change as riders get better aquainted with the ergonomics start to appreciate more the bullhorn bar solution. I have a medium and a large size in the bars, which is fine for ordinary use. But if you are building a bike for Maria Parker, you will want to find ways to improve them, as I mentioned above.
I can vouch for the favorable move from dropbars to bullhorns on my V. I started with dropbars, halfway thru last season switched to bullhorns and really like them a lot better.
I'm not sure what I would have thought of the bullhorns when first learning to ride the V, but after switching to them, I didn't find any negative handling characteristics.
The only thing I don't like about the bullhorns are the tight turns that the cabling has to make. It seems like I notice the extra drag on the brake cables the most.
Thanks for the photos Jack.
Now that I can see that the bullhorns angle in towards the end, I can see that they would fit me better than I had first thought. I didn't really consider them an option before.
And it would solve any questions as to what shifters to use. A nicely adjusted set of bar ends can be a delight. Not at all happy with the Uletgra sti brifters that I currently have.
- Shifting effort is stressed bc the bar is too straight-out forward. A 60 degree increase vertically can reduce wrist stress;
- Brake levers pointing forward make braking more difficult. To brake the rider uses the fingers that are weakest when gripping. Reversing the brake lever and increasing the angle of gripping handlebar (above) will provide rider with greater strength and less stress on wrists;
- On mountainous / hilly terrain with many, many ups and downs in short order, combined with switchbacks from 70-190 degrees the bullhorn bars don't offer the rider the chance to really, firmly control the steering.
Just my take.
The design idea of the bullhorn bars is to let the bars follow the arms and disappear into the hands, so that from an aero point of view, the arm, hand and bar become one entity. One entity is always better than two for aerodynamics, because the air is stopped from ‘vibrating’ between them. Every bit of turbulence that can be avoided is a plus. Time trial bars used in professional cycling indicated a path forward. On those arrangements, gear shifting is at the bar end, while brake levers remain on the conventional handlebars. I wanted to integrate shifting and braking together on one bar, with the bar pointing forward and strangely I discovered almost no precedent for this. And I wanted to have the grip area properly round, without the ridge caused be running a cable housing under the bar tape. All this was resolved in the Bullhorn Bars accessory we sell at Cruzbike. They have a specially designed set of shifters that run the cable inside the bar, and a set of lightweight brake levers. For one or two hour time trials, or for your usual morning ride, these have worked out very well.
Ultra marathon events like RAAM however bring a new challenge – finding the ergonomic solution for a rider who is on the bike not two hours a day but twenty hours a day.
If this is your riding mode, then specailly modded bars and alternative levers can assist, as I prepared for Maria Parker's RAAM bike. I'll discuss those in a blog in the coming days.
Hi John and Dan,
To address Dan's points about the orientation of the brake levers - how about the Jtek Engineering Aerobrake - same as the HED 3rd lever which Alan (Mr. V) used on his modified Deda dropped bullhorns.
Seems like these might be better than the reversed brake levers in your kit.
There are some interesting comments about these on slowtwitch.
I have thought about those. For the moment I am going with my early testing that told me that a bar with housings under the take is not a good shape to grip properly, particularly for small hands. But this set up is definitely worth testing. How does the lever power compare to a regular road brake lever?
Oh, and for Maria's RAAM bike, the bullhorn bars are quite close to her knees, so we might get some interference with the jtek levers.
I don't really know anything about them, just trying to research and I remembered Alan's post so I was trying to find out more about them myself. I figured you might have already experimented with them.
The Jtek page I linked to above includes a short Q&A at the bottom that says this, "The power of the brake levers has been intentionally reduced to help people avoid over braking while using them. A firm grip however, will still cause rapid de-acceleration."
I think this statement is aimed at being in an areo bar tuck on a DF with the levers on the ends of aerobars using a brake cable splitter to accommodate regular brake levers in addition to the aerobrakes. Using them with Vendetta bullhorns would obviously be differentbut perhaps the form or lever action would prevent these from being 100% effective as primary brake levers.
However, in his post about them, Alan said they were "very minimal in size with plenty of stopping power" but I'm not sure how much riding he did on his Vendetta before he got rid of it.
Hmmm, yes knee and leg clearance could make these levers a non-starter. I ended up flipping the Quest stem around to get more clearance for my right knee because I was unconciously flexing my right ankle too far to keep my right knee from brushing the IGH shifter assembly that sits below the right handlebar end.
I will pay close attention to this area when I assemble my Vendetta.
You're right on money about the levers not being 100% effective as primary levers. The trend in use of these kinds of levers in TT and Tri events is that they are used to scrub off speed rather than be capable of bringing a bike to a quick, complete stop. Yes, they will stop you, but not as fast or effectively as a full-sized lever.
I'm really liking the bullhorns feel and hand positioning but boy, let me tell you assembling them is a major PITA.
I tossed aside the segmented cable housings that John includes and bought more housing and ran them in a single run. MUCH easier to get everything together, especially if you tape the two shifter housings together at the base of the bars where the housings exit from inside the bullhorns to then run down inside the slider and out the pivot cage.
I am not fond of the brake levers but they work well enough for now, but I'm probably going to explore brake lever mods at some point in the future.
Oh and I also ran the rear brake housing all the way through the frame but I'm not liking it and will probably refit back to using the cable stops and bare cable inside the frame. I did not punch out the existing stops just angled the housing to run through where the flared area allows them to fit. With the housing inside the frame, it seems to have too much room to wiggle around making it harder to get a good brake pull on the rear brake.
Interesting comments on these handlebars. Note: Alan[Mr. V] never rode the Vendetta. He did have those brakes on his remote steering NoCom . They did work.
Hi Gary, I knew Alan had a NoCom but I don't recall hearing anything about remote steering for it. What was that all about?
I chatted with Alan a bit about his custom bars but he was being Alan so I didn't get much info from him.
Hey Eric.On the remote steering.Check WISIL site under projects for NoCom. Note: NoCom had rear Disc brake. Bull bars : Hope they work for you. Gary.
The beard is back, baby!
(Sorry, was I supposed to be looking at the bike?)
You look happy and proud. Might make a nice profile pic.
Are these Post wreck pictures ???
If post wreck then ; Did the Phoenix get repaired or replaced ???
@Tim - Post wreck repairs. I'm going to post a write-up of the repair/rebuild in a separate thread when I can find some free time. Kind of crazy busy lately...
@Charles - Yep although the pics are from Texas when I visited my parents last week, it has been getting cold in Michigan so the beard is back. I'm experimenting a bit, hence the chin curtain, to see what works better with my balaclava as it gets even colder...
Would probably work better if I could grow a better beard - I am somewhat follicle challenged...
Lost the beard - eldest son got married last Friday so I cleaned up for his new wife, my new daughter-in-law.
We'll see what happens as it gets colder...
@Charles (photo proof):
David (son/groom), Keith (brother), Eric (me), Brian (brother), Jonathan (son), George (dad)
Come on, Eric. You know the rules.
Picture or it didn't happen.
@Eric: After update here's all I have to say:
Mazel tov on the wedding!
I realize this is primarily a Vendetta thread, but is anyone using bullhorn bars on a Silvio?
i ask because (long story short) i seem to reflexively wind up riding my Sofrider (which came to me used, with 700c wheels, off-road drop bars, and STI) with my hands around the tops of the hoods, which seems to be pretty close to the hand position on the bullhorn bars. I was able to buy a Silvio 1.5 frame which i will be building up as cash flow allows, and am considering using the bullhorns. Anyone out there with those on a Silvio? Or is it a bad idea on the 1.5?
On the Vendetta, the shift cable and brake cable housing (4mm and 5mm) are both routed internally down inside each bullhorn to a center opening which aligns with the throat of the Vendetta slider.
All four cables (and housings!) are then routed down the throat of the Vendetta slider and out the pivot cage at the steerer tube and headset and then from there to the respective gear or brake control.
The cable housings are a pretty snug fit inside the Vendetta slider which is significantly larger than the Silvio and the Silvio lacks the large pivot cage opening AFAIK so I'm not sure if you could route everything internally on the Silvio.
I think there have been some Silvio owners who have installed the bullhorns but I'm not sure how they did it.
Ok thanks Eric. I was thinking once the cables reached the center opening on the bars it might be possible to finish routing them externally? Will see if anyone has more enlightenment to share
Per John Tolhurst: Sivio 1.5 has 25.4mm bar clamps. Bullhorn bars are 31.8mm.
Glad I asked!