better climber?

Don1

Guru
so... while the piggy bank fills is there anyone do this climbing test for me, to define the best climber the new silvo or the v20..

how?

find a hill of 5% 5km long if possible... hold 180watts. ride both bikes... which is faster?

is front visiblity an issue with these to bikes? the roads here in the tweed valley in australia arnt the smoothest or pot hole free.
 

MrSteve

Zen MBB Master
The Vendetta has a lower center of gravity, a longer wheelbase, weighs less and has no suspension, compared to the Silvio.
-The lower center of gravity is due to the lower seat angle which puts the rider's weight closer to the tarmac.
This allows the V to tackle steeper hills with less front wheel slip.
-The longer wheelbase of the Vendetta puts more weight over the front wheel when climbing which also allows the V
to take on steeper hills with less front wheel slip.
-Less weight is kind of nice... less work to pedal.
-No suspension to soak up your effort; all of your efforts are used to drive the V forward.

The Silvio has a more upright seating position, a shorter wheelbase, and rear suspension, compared to the Vendetta.
-More upright seating delivers a cooler ride and is easier to deal with for most people, most of the time.
-Shorter wheelbase fits standard bike carriers and is also agile at slower speeds.
-Rear suspension takes the edge off of rough roads.

The Silvio is a Grand Tourer, compared to the Vendetta.

Anyway, the answer to your three-part question is: The Vendetta is the best climber.
Visibility is good.
The smoothest of the two bikes on rough roads will be the Silvio.
 

Rick Youngblood

CarbonCraft Master
My opinion, is the Vendetta (probably any model) will out climb any Silvio (any model). It's lighter, stiffer, faster.

Me, I'm comparing the Silvio 2.rick to the Vendetta 2.rick. I think were I to adjust my seat angles, V high vs S low, S and V same, or V low vs S high, I'm very confident me on V will win every race to the top.

I also believe, speculation, theory, whatever, the Silvio 2.x vs Silvio 30. evolve - the S 30 evolve will climb better. But I don't think it will climb better than the V any model.

My personal thoughts on climbing. I like a lower seat to the ground recumbent for climbing, this is just my personal feeling, easier to get my leg from the pedal to the ground, little easier to start on hill from dead stop. Like Steve said, the V has a longer wheelbase, more weigh is on the front end which has less wheel slipping. I found it to be true in many of the hills I climb, I will have more slippage on the same hills on the S vs the V.

Now this is also only my opinion. For a person deciding between a V or S, don't decide based on climbing alone. Although I believe the V will climb faster than the S, it's just not going to be a big significant amount to justify that on its own. There should be many other reason to consider purchase a Vendetta or Silvio no matter the model.

Tires, wheels, inflation can improve any road surface to a point. The Silvio will have a little more supple ride over the Vendetta. However, short wheelbase takes uneven surface harder than longer wheelbase, Silvio has the rear always-active suspension to help that and then some. Good luck on deflating the piggy. On any bike I would try and stay out of the potholes, even on the Silvio, I think it hard on the bike, wheels, tires, etc.

Edit: With all of that said, everyone is different, for me the Vendetta is a more efficient climber, when for someone else they find the opposite true because they can produce more efficient power in a more upright seat position (I think this is why the seat reclined theory can't be proved). But for me, because I ride a Vendetta 2.rick, I can if I want to, adjust my seat in a more upright position equal to or greater to the Silvio. I can also recline my seat lower than the stock Vendetta seat.

Also something to consider. My Vendetta does not have a significant harsher ride than the Silvio because of my seat mod (see seat mod to know why). I live in an area that has a mix of road surfaces, from almost not rideable to oh-so-silky-smoooth. I still find myself choosing the Vendetta over the Silvio to ride the rough roads 100% (and that's a Silvio with the front shock). This again, is me. I have nearly 10,000 miles on the Vendetta and over 3000 on the Silvio, and most of the Silvio miles came before the Vendetta purchase. The biggest consideration, if you want the fastest and most efficient Cruzbike available, it's the Vendetta hands down (Robert said this in an earlier post). If that's not important, then the Silvio which is the second fast Cruzbike may be for you, there are of course many other things to consider). By the way, the Silvio is a fast bike, and I think considerably fast than many of the stick bikes available, just because of the MBB FWD and a faster climber to boot (just hope BROL members didn't see that :D:D).

I should also note. The better climber is not always the faster climber. For example the best climber I've ever owned was the Catrike 700. I had it geared so low I could darn near climb a tree. No hill was too big or too steep. Because I could ride it at 2 mph towing the dog trailer loaded with an ice chest, with my camera and water bottle in one hand and a sandwich in the other while chatting with my wife (not concentrating on the road) and still not fall over:cool:!
 
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MrSteve

Zen MBB Master
My opinion, is the Vendetta (probably any model) will out climb any Silvio (any model). It's lighter, stiffer, faster.

By the way, the Silvio is a fast bike, and I think considerably fast than many of the stick bikes available, just because of the MBB FWD and a faster climber to boot (just hope BROL members didn't see that :D:D).

I must agree with Mr. Youngblood here, regarding the Silvio's climbing prowess.
My old Sofrider is much heavier than any Silvio and it was never outclimbed by any other
rear-wheel drive recumbent bicycle: Ever.

The Vendetta is in a class of it's own.
 

Don1

Guru
ok thanks guys. here where i live you cant realy get out of the valley unless you can climb but saying that there are so many loops around and over that it is a riders paradise. i m currently on a carbon df and enjoy but have always loved recumbents but thought they where fully faired until i saw one on a side round while watching tour e france telecast, which led me here.... the fastest and most awesome looking recumbents. so now i save. also i have started on lchf diet since the science is compelling. most of my riding is in the hills min 2hrs ride time and go on gran fondos and a thing called peaks challenge here on the gold coast. i am enjoying the forum and amazed by the efforts, adventures and passion everyone has. again thanks
 

LMT

Well-Known Member
All things being equal the V20 should be quicker going up a hill. Being lighter than the a S30? And certainly having a lower drag coefficient.
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
All things being equal the V20 should be quicker going up a hill. Being lighter than the a S30? And certainly having a lower drag coefficient.

All things being equal yep just a quicker bike. When not going up the steep parts > 8% this ride was mostly a recovery ride effort level and the V20 just eats it up. 18.5mph average. The Silvio would have been about 16.5mph and there are several steep parts that don't show on this graph because they are two short but at >13% coming away from the river; in those spots the Silvio slips but the V20 just climbs up the gravity wall just fine. Oddly not a single DF spotted on this entire ride not one; guess they don't have the stomach for the hills, and geesh by the standards of some of our tribe this is down right flat. Relentless but flat.


notflat.png
 

RojoRacing

Donut Powered Wise-guy
the fastest climbing bike is whatever one i happen to be riding that given day especially if it's a 15lb Carbon DF bike. the rider will always be the greatest outlier when it come to these types of questions.
 

super slim

Zen MBB Master
For the guys with BOTH a Silvio V2.0 or later and a Vendetta, what is the front and rear wheel loads with the same rider, as I expect they are both 50%+-1%!

From the internet, but I can not remember where, the C of G of a rider, is the Belly Button for height, and horizontally, so what is your Belly B height above the ground for the two bikes?
 

ak-tux

Zen MBB Master
marco-ruga-V-maxresdefault.jpg These guys (Marco Ruga and friend) with Carbon DIY MBB in Italy seem to be climbing upto 16% grades quite fine! check the video at about 3:21. His DIY has a much lower BB and the seat looks more upright like a Silvio.

 
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DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
Gosh.... my fantasy a carbon fibre Vendetta.... That's the ultimate. Don't think it will ever happen. :(
 

Bentas

Well-Known Member
This is his next generation , ( I don't think that's him on the bike)a few more Carbon bits,
lots of entertaining footage of Marco kicking DF ass on you tube ..
Looks like his more recent builds are Velo's ,very clever man.
 

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Bentas

Well-Known Member
Here is my Carbon vendetta clone, weighs in on the digital bathroom scale at 21 lbs as you see it ,no fd yet or rear brake.
I'm totally out of condition , mid winter and icy here in Tas but already seeing significant improvement in climbing only using lg chainring. 8lbs lighter than my alu bike, and ride quality silky smooth even on chipseal.
Going to add some rear seat stays to stiffen rear end , front is really stiff ,it certainly jumps out of the blocks.
 

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Bentas

Well-Known Member
I've said it before, would love to see some climbing footage with Cruzbikes mixing it with Df'S , best way to silence the naysayers.
Especially with climbers the caliber of Perez and co, would convert a few more to CB no doubt, ( when in Rome..........)
Why should the Italians have all the fun!
 

RojoRacing

Donut Powered Wise-guy
I've said it before, would love to see some climbing footage with Cruzbikes mixing it with Df'S , best way to silence the naysayers.
Especially with climbers the caliber of Perez and co, would convert a few more to CB no doubt, ( when in Rome..........)
Why should the Italians have all the fun!

Climbing footage is SOOOOO boring, you ever notice me delve into the finite aspects of climbing when writing my race reports, no? Well now you know why I don't bother including that part of the story. What we really need is something exciting like breaking the national speed limit while while passing motorcycles in their local canyon playgrounds? Maybe a high frame rate camera mounted under the seat pointed back to catch the rear wheel floating off the ground under hard breaking in full slow motion?
 

Bentas

Well-Known Member
Ok footage of that as well as passing df''s uphill.
But seriously I couldn't be the only one who would like to see elite CB climbers dicing it in the hills with DF riders?
If you were'nt as competitive as you have proven to be Jason, yes that would be boring but seeing footage of recumbents winning when they are not supposed to ,this is anything but boring to me.
I don't know how many times I have watched the Sebring recumbent paceline smashing DF's filmed by JV a few years back, and that was a flat course.
 
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ak-tux

Zen MBB Master
Ok footage of that as well as passing df''s uphill.
But seriously I couldn't be the only one who would like to see elite CB climbers dicing it in the hills with DF riders?
If you were'nt as competitive as you have proven to be Jason, yes that would be boring but seeing footage of recumbents winning when they are not supposed to ,this is anything but boring to me.
I don't know how many times I have watched the Sebring recumbent paceline smashing DF's filmed by JV a few years back, and that was a flat course.
You have a very nice lightweight DIY Carbon MBB! Now all you need is a nice Eken H9R or any other Gopro-like camera mounted on your helmet, then you can catch and share some action from your rides. Just look for a few DFs and see if you can keep up and overtake them on a climb.
 
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