Bullhorn and Dropbar Options

[ratz]

Bullhorn Stability

Marc,

The videos you posted shows how stable the that setup is. That has been our experience too. I don't have a camera mount to shoot the angle you did; so I think it's great that you got those shots. When the Mrs and I ride the the Silvios with the Deda's our arms remain solid and steady like you video, the boom stays locked in on a nice straight position; no wrist bends and it just comfortable and powerful, it never is shaky.

I have Origin8 GaryBar drops on the Vendetta just because it was faster to get setup; that's given me a nice comparison. It's not bad to ride that way but IMO it's not as stable as the Deda's on the Silvio. If I loose focus it can be a little sloppy at times. Since Fall is here with a vengeance I'll ride out the season with the drops and then this winter I'll be making another set of bullhorn brifters to put on the Vendetta. It is nice that the cable lengths for the two setups are the same so I should be able to switch between them without a ton of effort.

 

[Ivan]

Electronic Shifters

I have no experience with electronic drivetrains, but it seems to me that when electronic shifting is integrated into the small TT style brake levers, this would be perfect for a bullhorn setup with Silvio/Vendetta. This would allow the use of almost any bullhorn bar with sufficient width and reach. For example, what do y'all think of these Campy TT brake-shifters. I guess these are TT brifters! ?http://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-chorus-tt-eps-11-speed-brake-shifters/



Though I have drops on my Silvio, the more I ride, the more my arms like to be fully extended and I am not holding the drops but the hoods. I find this comfortable, though I am sure not as comfortable as TalleyHo's "proper" bullhorn setup.

 

[ratz]

Almost went Di2 for that same reason;

Almost went Di2 for that same reason; Eric suggested those early on, Shimano has a set too. The only concern is breaking power from the small levers. After many hours the hands might get tired on the small levels. The ones I road all summer are about mid way between TT and brifters. Hands never go too tired but they probably did hit about 75% on the fatigue scale. About 1 more week and the Silvio is headed for the basement; and a retro fit of bullhorn brifters. I considered going electric this winter but I decided against it as that would lead to too many other "Bright" ideas.

 

[Ivan]

Bullhorn Brifters

Ratz, I finally did your bullhorn brifter style! After looking at all the options, the only one that could really work with my setup would be the Profile Design T2 Wing in an upside-down flipped position. Here are the bars alone:

Here is my current drop bar setup:

And here I had positioned the Profile bullhorn bars with a spare set of Campy Veloce brifters just to visualize the position. You can see that these brifters get me a more reach than the dropbars, and that they are flipped. The reason for flipping is, as per Ratz' suggestion, to get the brifters in a more appropriate position.

Satisfied that this would be doable, I redid the cables and setup my SRAM Force brifters. When setting them up however, I discovered a strange thing. When tightening the bolt that fixed my SRAM brifter, the shifting on both left and right shifters would seize up. It had something to do with the fact that was attaching the brifter to a straight section of handlebar and not the normal curved portion of a dropbar. I had initially wanted it like this, but this won't work. Remembering that Ratz had his almost all the way to end, some trial and error determined that I could have 1cm of straight bar extending from the clamping band, and not 3cm as I had originally had it (pic below shows 3cm, and my shifters freeze up when bolted down in this position). Since I needed this position of the brifters, I then cut 2cm off either bar end. This leaves a gap and handlebar wrapping is a challenge, but it's essentially the same as Ratz' setup. I did a temp job of handlebar wrap for now -- I'll have fashion something to better cover that gap like others seemed to do.

So here is the result. I've test ridden it downstairs, and will try and give it a proper ride and get a pic in the daytime soon. I had wanted improved hand position in my preferred cruising posture. It feels quite different starting up cos I am used to starting/stopping with hands in the drops. That will take some getting used to, as will slow maneuvers. However, there is no more leg interference that I had with my dropbars due to my high BB/low handlebar.

In summary, the key difference in this setup than others is that I did not cut off the curve of the dropbar. Instead, I flipped the bar and installed the brifter on the curve that now curves downward. I still had to cut a little off, but this may not be necessary with a Shimano brifter. The big plus for my setup is that I get a lot more reach and thus straighter arms. This would work for others only if (a) you liked the more downward resulting angle of the brifter, (b) your BB is high, handlebars low because you don't be able to get any drop in the bullhorn since you would be flipping it.

 

[ratz]

Looking forward

Nice work Ivan,


Looking forward to a rider on the bike picture.

That was one of the better options with the high BB, if it wasn't such a tight fit for me at the boom that would have been the option I went with. I could probably ride with the drop-horns with a 50-60mm extension; but at 100mm the straight ones make the most sense. I believe mark was consider putting his extension in this winter and using the Deda straight horns which are basically the same as what the same but with out the bend. After seeing your final photo the bend seem really advantageous.

Starting and will come quickly; I tend to start with the brakes engaged a lot; using a full hand wrap grip.

 

[super slim]

Ivan,
What is the distance

Ivan,
What is the distance from the CL of the handle bar clamp to the vertical rear surface of the brifter, on my Silvio V1.0 with WTB mountain drop bars it is 140 mm?

 

[Ivan]

Rode 50km commute today with

Rode 50km commute today with the new bullhorns. Definitely better positioning for laying on the power than the dropbars. I was surprised at the difference that the more solid grip with straight arms made. But my arms were tired and hands were sore as my positioning was not optimal. So I readjusted by moving the brifters closer to my body as my arms were too extended, and also angled them upward more. Here is my new setup:

Funny thing was, now I can move my brifters back and I didn't have the seizing problem that I got yesterday! I can't explain it, but I am glad it works now. The ends of the handlebars are now flush with the edge of the brifter. The brifter clamp is positioned just after the bend (remember the bullhorns are flipped). Below, the near brifter shows the new position while the far brifter shows yesterday's position.

Having the bar end flush with the brifter makes for easy and neat bar tape wrapping. Two judiciously placed extra pieces of bar tape covered the gaps and made it look perfect!

Super Slim, I am not sure the exact measurement you are referring to - as I don't understand "vertical rear surface of brifter" - so here is a photo for you showing the dimensions as best as I can muster. Blurry cos of low light and one hand holding iPhone while other is holding measuring tape, but you can make out the tape measure. 20cm is at the centre line of the handlebar.

I think I can "get away" with this setup because of my high BB and low handlebar. More commonly for people with higher bars however, I think the Deda Crono Low Riders bar with the drop would be better for most - see Ratz' post #69 in this thread. I'll try and get the missus to take a pic of me on the bike another day when I finalize adjustments.

 

[super slim]

200 mm from the handle bar

200 mm from the handle bar clamp CL to front of Brifter, using my WTB Dirt Drops which has a 127 mm drop, and 110 mm reach, so it looks like it is similar reach to your set up.
I will try rotating the handle bars down, so my wrists rests on the bar when the hands are on the hoods.

Super Slim

 

[Ivan]

I am really like this current

I am really liking this current setup. This angle, where the brake levers are about 45 deg seems to be a sweet spot for me. Done about 200km so far on it. The nice thing about brifters on the bullhorns like this is a large surface to grasp and pull on the handlebars. The end of the bar becomes part of the surface area to pull on.

 

[Andrew 1973]

Thanks for your detailed

Thanks for your detailed write-up of your handlebar experiences. I like the inverted bullhorns too. The look is minimalist and obviously very effective for you and you eliminated the bar-to-leg interference. I have to admit, when I first saw your Silvio build photos, I couldn't imagine riding with such a closed cockpit, but it is something I'd like to try.

 

[ratz]

Ah oh

and then this happened, what now?

 

[ratz]

Many hours later

Sure I can finish that other bike tonight; how long could it possibly take. I'm finally going to have bullhorn brifters on my Silvio.

Well that sounds good until you remove the bottom bracket and find out that the bearings are shoot after 1500 miles. That was odd. I wonder if either the bracket clams were too tight or if they where cockeyed. I know you can over tighten them which makes the cranks not spin freely. I have never seen a torque spec for those brackets... Hey Robert if your reading this post if there a torque values for the BB clamps?

So any how put he bike back together after replacing the BB and cleaning the bike. (yeah I had a spare BB i the bin never used the included one on the Vendetta, phew toy room availability preserved for tomorrow).

Then took the pipe cutting to the Deda bars

Then of course because I assumed rather than measuring the cabling. I took it all apart only to have to put it back together again *sigh* more time lost. Measure measure measure....

But eventually I got it together (well the bike at least) and here we have my my bull horn brifter setup with a 50mm extension. Took a while to fine the new boom settings that I liked for length. That's a lot easier after logging 2k miles on these frames, but still putzy.

Got myself a magnetic level and which is actually handy for leveling the bars. hmmm. they still look a little off.

But hey it's 3am and it's mostly done; still need to rustle up to seat pin bolts to finish attaching the extension. That will be interesting to find some with the right length and no anti turn notch.


Anyhow turn out pretty good; and the boom changes are very comfortable.

 

[Andrew 1973]

Seat Pins

I believe it's a 19mm seatpost binder that you'll need. Campagnolo's version has a knurled end as opposed to the key found on most of them. They're expensive, but what else would you expect from Campagnolo?

http://www.excelsports.com/main.asp?page=8&description=Seatpost+Binder+Bolt&vendorCode=CAMP&major=11&minor=8 (opens in new window)

As an alternative, I also thought about using extra long chainring bolts/nuts for this application. I tried this at home, and while I didn't have the right length, mine fit into the hole perfectly.

Check out http://www.torontocycles.com/Selling/Chainrings_and_Cranks.html (opens in new window)

 

[Jeremy S]

still need to rustle up to

still need to rustle up to seat pin bolts to finish attaching the extension

FYI, I emailed Cruzbike support for these and they sold me a couple.

 

[Andrew 1973]

"FYI, I emailed Cruzbike

"FYI, I emailed Cruzbike support for these and they sold me a couple."

Probably a lot more affordable than my Campagnolo ones.

 

[ratz]

For those that prefer drops

I stumbled on these last night.

They sure look like the original gary bars, work great on a Vendetta or a Silvio with extension

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C45H7C8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

the Gary-2 work but need a shim at the stem clamp.

Anodized black so the same finish as the new boom and Silvio 2 boom.

 

[Lief]

Ratz & Gary Bars

I've seen you reference this a couple of times - do you (or someone you know) need/want some original Gary Bars?
I have one I'm probably never gonna use again.

 

[Andrew 1973]

Flippin' Gary Bars

"Meanwhile I think I might try flipping my Gary bars. It would look funny but on a FWDMBB who would notice?"

I just tried this. It's a great way to use what you have to experiment with some of the bullhorn set-ups seen in this thread. It looks a little odd, but not as odd as I thought it would. Hold on, I'll go snap a quick photo... (BRB)

Okay...that's a lousy photo. I'll take a better one later. Anyway, the position of the hoods has a three-fold benefit: better ergonomics that match my hand position while riding a DF bike, and since these Sora levers have built-in gear position indicators, I can now see them. Finally, the lever position allows me to route the shift cables close to the bar profile, keeping them out of my line of sight.

After one ride, this is a set up I'd like to experiment with. If I can find a bullhorn with a similar profile, but with a long forward extension, I think I could really lock in on a comfortable and maybe more aero position.

 

[ReklinedRider]

Flipped Gary's

Andrew, missed that last post. Not sure if your trial of the flipped bars is the same as this, it's hard to tell from your photo (love the Green Machine btw). I've been riding them in this configuration since late spring. Long story short: love this set up, works for me.

Not sure what happened to the picture quality. Always have to crop and crop to get the pic down to a usable size (< 1MB)

?Not ever even sure it will work.

 

[ReklinedRider]

Ok anyway on the !.5 my

Ok anyway on the !.5 my shoulders are just above the flat part of the bar, so good reach. Multiple hand positions. When i first did this it was just to see if I wanted bullhorn bars enough to undertake an extensive search. Then after riding this a short time, i decided I liked it as is, but thought I would need to change to bar end shifters and brake-only levers. After all, with the brifters upside down they have to be reversed to be useable (left hand controls rear derailleur, right hand controls front. I did recable the brakes so that the rear brake is controlled by right hand and vv) and I expected that to be too hard to get used to. As it turns out, after a few rides it became second nature. Plus, I love being able to mount mirrors where I can see easily and they're not in the way of anything. I'll trade a little aero for good rear vis anyday. Did the same with my Sofrider. Love the support this way; the curve of the bars lets me rest my wrists there and be relaxed when not pulling or pushing for uphills or speed. Easy, immediate access to the brakes and shifters. Hands up near the top just under the mirrors for low speed maneuvering; seems to be best for that, and can also get very nearly straight arms in that position for higher speed cruising or downhill. Still easy to drop down to the brakes in a split second for quick stopping. I also figured the brifters would be in the way of my legs too much for long term; they're not. If just learning to ride a CB they might be since beginners (at least I did) tend to flail their knees out on starts to begin with which I quickly realized was lame, lame, lame. If I keep my knees/legs where they're supposed to be, I never ever notice any interference from the brifters despite their low appearance.

If I ever get the engine to the point I feel like I could truly benefit from a V, I would mount the bars the same way, only probably no Gary bars; something less flared out at the ends and shorter, and would probably use bar end shifters and figure out another place for mirrors. Although I have to admit I really to like Ivan's latest iteration.