Carbon Fiber Fun

[RojoRacing]

Jason, the Carbon Fiber mods look stunning, and functional!
My guess is + 3 mph on your hill!

Just imagine how it would look from a few feet back if I had one of the new black colored frames. The red showing here and there really stands out but that's ok for now. I'm been considering painting the frame a custom black with orange and white CruzBike decals. I have a very sharp designer that's worked on all my motorcycles and could probably come up with something to make the CruzBike bigwigs jealous. All just a matter of finding the time and money and time to do the mods.

 

[ratz]

Gosh... That's a clever idea. That must improve timings for sure. Love it.

Only way to tell is to measure it. spinning a tire through an enclosed area has implications. But give the hills in that area; a Simple coast down test with and without the box installed would tell the tale. You'd want to be able to coast past 20mph. Same starting point; no pedaling; no braking and no turning. Which every configuration roll father is more aero (in general). Depending on clearance those long float pretty carbon surface may function as an air friction brake.... but I suspect the will have zero impact below 30mph at which point the impact might be advantageous to the need to brake.

That's a long winded way of saying when it comes to aero features; every thing is a guess; and obvious is actually not; and testing is in exact. Purple for the win!

 

[RojoRacing]

Only way to tell is to measure it. spinning a tire through an enclosed area has implications. But give the hills in that area; a Simple coast down test with and without the box installed would tell the tale. You'd want to be able to coast past 20mph. Same starting point; no pedaling; no braking and no turning. Which every configuration roll father is more aero (in general). Depending on clearance those long float pretty carbon surface may function as an air friction brake.... but I suspect the will have zero impact below 30mph at which point the impact might be advantageous to the need to brake.

That's a long winded way of saying when it comes to aero features; every thing is a guess; and obvious is actually not; and testing is in exact. Purple for the win!

Great so it only takes me about 3hrs to make and install the box and vinyl so it'll only take me all day to do a few comparison runs

I do understand the implications of passing the wheel through an I closed space and my answer to that is appearance over function. Sometimes it doesn't matter how well something performs as long as it looks BADA$$. Even with possible wheel air friction at high speeds I think the removing the 90 deg trailing edges of my storage box will make a greater impact.

If this area was made as is as full carbon construction I'd imagine the ride would be rather harsh because of no flexing of the chassis. The cool thing about the vinyl is it doesn't stiffen the ride and weight gains are negligible.

 

[RojoRacing]

So I cut out a little donut from the carbon vinyl and used it to cover up the exposed hole on the disc brake side of the wheel. Basically just tossed it over the hole and applied heat to get it to lay down. It's got one crinkle that I'm sure I can avoid the next time. I'm thinking the vinyl donut should probably last through several removal and installs of the covers if I'm carful not to damage it.

 

[ratz]

Sometimes it doesn't matter how well something performs as long as it looks BADA$$

Oh I'd never do something for JUST that reason.. .never.... ever.... hey why are you all laughing? stop that.... come-on manners.... Geesh...

 

[super slim]

Great so it only takes me about 3hrs to make and install the box and vinyl so it'll only take me all day to do a few comparison runs

I do understand the implications of passing the wheel through an I closed space and my answer to that is appearance over function. Sometimes it doesn't matter how well something performs as long as it looks BADA$$. Even with possible wheel air friction at high speeds I think the removing the 90 deg trailing edges of my storage box will make a greater impact.

If this area was made as is as full carbon construction I'd imagine the ride would be rather harsh because of no flexing of the chassis. The cool thing about the vinyl is it doesn't stiffen the ride and weight gains are negligible.

Jason if you do the next descent of your big hill with a non disc non drive wheel, and the CF rear triangle and box is the only other mod since the last descent, then the speed effect of the box will be seen. then add the CF covered wheel for the next test!

I think that Jason's box and frame double sided covers will reduce the drag from air attached to the top and side of the tyre, as it would see one disturbance, instead of two, especially when there is no rim brake!

Jason, have you ridden your MTB down your big hill and what speed did you reach?

Jason, have any of your DF friends of the same height and shoulder width, ridden their DF down your big hill and what speed did they reach, when on the drops, NOT doing a Froome?

 

[DavidCH]

Jason, being a pioneer is an adventure. Be careful. You have changed the airflow over the back of the bike with what you have done. Try to get an idea of the bike's reaction with no wind and with a side wind and with the apparent wind of you going 70mph down that great big *#%+*^ hill.

Personally I would go for a more conservative testing approach before the big one.

 

[RojoRacing]

Jason, being a pioneer is an adventure. Be careful. You have changed the airflow over the back of the bike with what you have done. Try to get an idea of the bike's reaction with no wind and with a side wind and with the apparent wind of you going 70mph down that great big *#%+*^ hill.

Personally I would go for a more conservative testing approach before the big one.

Is entering a double Century Road race conservative enough. Let's hope I have no horror stories to tell by the end of today

 

[Cruzbike Chris]

Good luck Jason, we're pulling for you.

 

[MrSteve]

Is entering a double Century Road race conservative enough. Let's hope I have no horror stories to tell by the end of today

Nothing but good will come of this.
Please control your glee or your smile muscles will be cramped for days.

 

[Bill K]

Took me about 4 hours to figure out this one side but the disc brake or drive side is going to always be harder because of the minimal dishing needed.

If you are using a 140mm rotor, you can buy a couple of mm clearance between the spokes and caliper by going to a 160mm rotor.

Also, there is an interesting and possibly useful "flame test" you can do indoors, on the test stand, to help you see how aero your wheels are:
https://lonniemorse.wordpress.com/2013/02/21/low-tech-testing-any-one-can-do/

 

[RojoRacing]

I can't believe the idea of the 160mm rotor and it giving me more clearance never occurred to me, must be a lack of sleep over here.

So the short report is the wheel worked fine today with no noticeable issues and no noticeable gains. I'm just not going to feel a boost of speed from a disc wheel and I'm basically immune to placebo. We started the ride right at 6am of the 4-6am window so Justin and I were basically last to get started and I was just flying passed riders on the 100 miles of out and back to lunch. It'd be cool to say the wheel was the reason I was so much faster then basically the whole field but I'm always way faster so that's no different. It did however encite many more aerodynamic based comments about the vendetta from the other riders.

I started easy with Justin then dropped him on the descent and proceeded to finish out the first 100 miles with 7000' of accent in exactly 5hours to the second. Then waited 30 mins at lunch so I could ride with him the last hundred. We still ended up posting the fastest times for the day and I'm sure my first 100 miles miles ahead of the next best. Now it is time for bed

I'd did poke fun and tell an older rider who said these riders are hard on the body to get on a vendetta because they are great for old guys. I think my sales pitch could use a touch of work because he wasn't buying what I was selling.

 

[DavidCH]

I can't believe the idea of the 160mm rotor and it giving me more clearance never occurred to me, must be a lack of sleep over here.

So the short report is the wheel worked fine today with no noticeable issues and no noticeable gains. I'm just not going to feel a boost of speed from a disc wheel and I'm basically immune to placebo. We started the ride right at 6am of the 4-6am window so Justin and I were basically last to get started and I was just flying passed riders on the 100 miles of out and back to lunch. It'd be cool to say the wheel was the reason I was so much faster then basically the whole field but I'm always way faster so that's no different. It did however encite many more aerodynamic based comments about the vendetta from the other riders.

I started easy with Justin then dropped him on the descent and proceeded to finish out the first 100 miles with 7000' of accent in exactly 5hours to the second. Then waited 30 mins at lunch so I could ride with him the last hundred. We still ended up posting the fastest times for the day and I'm sure my first 100 miles miles ahead of the next best. Now it is time for bed

I'd did poke fun and tell an older rider who said these riders are hard on the body to get on a vendetta because they are great for old guys. I think my sales pitch could use a touch of work because he wasn't buying what I was selling.

Pleased you did well. Congrats

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Playing around with carbon fiber between packing and moving, I wanted to investigate what would be involved to make an adjustable seat bracket for my Vendetta.

Below is my first prototype. Ideally, a bracket should be made out of aluminum and heat treated for strengthen instead of carbon fiber.

I don't recommend this part: I drilled straight through the frame horizontally, and then shaped (to the inside tube area see photos) a block of delrin plastic inserted into the frame for support. This gives the needed support for the frame tube and bracket quick release.

Currently I have three bracket angle positions. A fourth and lowest seat angle position is to replace the bracket with a 3/4" rubber block. I like the mid adjustment hole for all-around riding, MUP's, climbing, forward vision, riding in vehicular traffic, sight seeing, etc. The lowest hole will be used this summer, one I get fit again, for fast centuries, etc. The highest seat angle I will experiment with this winter to see if it gives any noticeable climbing advantages.

I've got about 400 miles on the bracket so far and see no signs of stress or cracks, knock on wood. The next bracket will be made from a combination carbon fiber and Kevlar.

 

[LarryOz]

Playing around with carbon fiber between packing and moving, I wanted to investigate what would be involved to make an adjustable seat bracket for my Vendetta.

Awesome stuff! You're my hero Rick!

 

[Bill K]

Currently I have three bracket angle positions. A fourth and lowest seat angle position is to replace the bracket with a 3/4" rubber block. I like the mid adjustment hole for all-around riding, MUP's, climbing, forward vision, riding in vehicular traffic, sight seeing, etc. The lowest hole will be used this summer, one I get fit again, for fast centuries, etc. The highest seat angle I will experiment with this winter to see if it gives any noticeable climbing advantages.

Very cool, I want one if you ever decide to sell them!
How do the seat angles changes affect your knee extension? Is it small enough that you do not need to adjust the boom?

This could become CruzBike V2030 (the bike, not the year).

 

[Bentas]

More superb innovation and craftsmanship ,up to the usual standard!

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Thanks guys!

How do the seat angles changes affect your knee extension? Is it small enough that you do not need to adjust the boom?

Seat adjustment will always affect boom adjustment. Raise it, move boom out, lower it move boom in. This holds true for other bents as well...but once I find the boom re-adjustment position for each seat bracket hole and mark it, I'm good to go.

 

[super slim]

Rick, yet another superbly created CF modification, with the aim for greater riding comfort!

 

[RojoRacing]

I agree the method of drilling and adding a pin through the frame where you did is not ideal. I feel the CruzBike frames use a thicker alloy then is needed adding to their weight over DF bike but at the same time that also mean you probably won't have any issues with your mod. If the frame was as thin as most of the high end mtbs I've seen then you could expect the drilled holes to oblong over time with every shock load from lumpy roads.

Now if you were to weld in a hollow alloy shaft through frame you could then use a pin without any worry of deformity over time. Sadly welding alloy is hard to do for an amateur and we can't be proficient at everything.