Components for a Silvio S30

[tiltmaniac]

I'm probably about to purchase an S30 for my tilting trike project (and if that fails, it looks to be a sweet ride anyway!).

Now the question is about components:

What components should I put on this thing?
I'm looking for the widest gear range with a very low granny.

To give perspective here, my granny is 17.3 gear inches (1.3X ratio with 175mm cranks), with a 623% difference from granny to top gear on my Heron (diamond-frame) tourer.

I'd like to replicate this or (hopefully) better it on my Silvio S30, if possible.

I'm perfectly happy to build a wheel or do other standard bike-related stuff to make this work (grinding acceptable, machining custom gears.. not so much).

Suggestions?

 

[ratz]

I would start with what Rick

I would start with what Rick rides, and add a triple on the front

http://cruzbike.com/advice-vendetta-gearing#comment-27785

Go here to analyze your setup.

http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.sherman/shift.html

 

[tiltmaniac]

Has anyone been crazy enough

Has anyone been crazy enough to do a Rohloff on a Silvio2+? It seems like the installation of such would be... interesting.

My previous playing around with Sheldon's gear calc shows a fairly nice range for such a setup, though, even assuming one keeps to Rohloff's stated gearing or torque limit, though keeping to their limit means that the gear-inches are about the same as my touring bike on the low end instead of being even lower. Perhaps that'd be fine with the Silvio's increased climbing efficiency, though.

I take it by a triple, you're talking about a 74mm bcd triple?
Are there suggestions for bottom-brackets which give more clearance for such a thing, or are they essentially all the same given the requirement to not have rounded shoulders?

 

[bladderhead]

I bought a Rohloff for my

I bought a Rohloff for my S2.0, and had it made into a wheel. I then found that it does not fit. You have to pull the forks apart. The hub goes in, but the drop-outs are not parallel to the flat ends of the hub. When the quick-release is tightened the drop-outs are pulled parallel. This applies a bending force to the drop-outs. They told me that the drop-outs can break. Steel can survive torsion, but aluminium breaks. While you are riding it. The drop-outs must be parallel without tightening the quick-release. I decided not to risk it. I had to get the Rohloff taken out of the rim. New Rohloff, never used, went on Ebay. I have XX1 and really like it. Only one chainwheel. The range of ratios is almost as big as Rohloff, without the weight. And on this bike, the weight of the hub probably effects the steering.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

?As Bob mentioned in the

As Bob mentioned in the above post from a post I did back in July 2014:

"I will be running my Frankenstein setup on my new just (today) purchased V2. Same thing I'm running on my S2, actually moving it over for now. I live in mountain area unlike Bob. But I think his set is perfect for rollers and very short hills.
Now don't laugh guys, here is mine:

Sram Rival compact double up front with 53t Q-ring and 34t Q-ring. Rear derailleur is SRAM Via GT long cage, Drive cassette is 13-42 toothed (would love to have the 11 back on some of the long descents, but I live), 28-32 used on most climbing 6-8% (not rollers though). I've got the Sram Force 22 Yaw too, best FD I've ever used. I get into the 36 and 42 on 10% - 15% and plus on the long hill climbs, or as a bail out, or to recover and rest through the climb. But I think as I get stronger/better at climbing, 32 or 36 at the most. Now this is on my Silvio, and I'm not sure what to expect on the V2. But I can surly tell you, you don't need the tiny gear inches on these bike that you do on the rear drive high racers."

After about 6000 plus miles using the above gearing, and trying triples too. The above gearing works great for me, shifts are perfect,

I have use of all my gears, big-big and small-small.

My gearing from other recumbents where quite low...

My ex-Metabike: 24t chainring x 36t cog wheel = 17.9 gear inches

Silvio & Vendetta: 34t chainring x 42t cog wheel = 21.6 gear inches

As noted, the Silvio and Vendetta climb better, easier, faster.

After trying triples, I did not like it and personably would not recommend it.

I've changed out the 53 Qring for a 52 Aero Qring on both bikes. The cassettes are Shimano XT 11x36 10 speed converted to 13x42 (still 10 speed). The 42 cog is from Wolf Tooth Components @ $89. I removed the 11t cog and replaced it and the 11 tooth locking ring with an Absolute Black 13 tooth locking ring.

I would also like to note, the Sram Force 22 Yaw works great at shifting these big gears, once setup properly, I never loose a chain, and as Bob said before "shifts like butter".

I take it by a triple, you're talking about a 74mm bcd triple?

With a 74 BCD you have to offset crankset to the right by several mm's using spacers. Again I did not like this setup. Shimano makes a 130 x 92 or 94 BCD triple that will clear the BB clamp. I've tired this too, and still did not like it.

 

[ratz]

Question for those with the

Question for those with the Single cog 40T+ Solutions.

The only question I have about you final setup Rick or anyone else that's done it; did you change out the freehub body to a CNC steel one? With Those single cog solution you only get about a 4-5mm drive interface on the freehub and a lot of leverage with those. Back in the day with MTB's and custom 9 speed cogs; we use to see a lots of chewed up and stripped freehubs. I haven't see any of these add on that bolt on or tie into the three cog bracket to give a larger surface area to put with.

I'm excited that you posted AbsoluteBlack.cc I had not stumbled on them before it appear they make a 1 piece 36T-40T solution on the larger interface. That's a step in the right direction; of course it's a CNC set of rings so they solved the wear issue and added a weight limiter of 200lbs bike+rider limit. Guess I would need a 9lbs bike to use that. But one has to wonder if those weight limits are assuming a 24T MTB drive side. Suppose we could email them and ask.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Hi Bob, my freehub is stock.

Hi Bob, my freehub is stock. I haven't had a problem with excessive wear or any anomalies on the freehub. However I have heard mention of concerns. Wolf does a good job with their design of this cog. I've got a combined 6000+ miles and haven't had any indications of stripping out the freehub. I don't believe I am putting the types of force and leverage on these that a mountain biker would under hard racing conditions.

There are other manufactures out there that make a 3 cog swap out too, like General Lee .... I now see that they dropped their prices quite a bit since they introduced their products. I think when they introduced their cog kits they were over $200, now they are down to a more reasonable cost.

Another single cog kit is offered from OneUp.

I see that many other companies has sprung up in the recent year too.

 

[Robert Holler]

Triples are way overkill on

Triples are way overkill on the low end for Cruzbikes and not necessary - that has been my experience.

You can only gear a two wheeler so low anyway. People sometimes want to gear these like they are trikes. Very confusing.

I can always spin a higher gear on my Cruzbikes than on a similar RWD recumbent on the same hill.

Robert

 

[Rick Youngblood]

I can always spin a higher

I can always spin a higher gear on my Cruzbikes than on a similar RWD recumbent on the same hill.

This is true for me to. I have found that I'm at least a few miles an hour faster climbing the same hills as I did on my other recumbents. I was so used to requiring triples with 24t grannies on my other recumbents (as a matter of fact, I going to whisper, I even had a 22 toothed granny on my Metabike), that that's what I though I needed for my Silvio too...but I've been re-schooled now. However I do need to get in to my 42t cog now and then on some of the steeper hills, but it's not often.

 

[Robert Holler]

Rick,
I have about the same

Rick,

I have about the same experience. I also find that the bikes feel better and handle better with the bigger chainrings and wider range cassette (when needed) as opposed to mini granny rings.

 

[tiltmaniac]

@Robert:
Ha. Indeed.
Or some

@Robert:
Ha. Indeed.
Or some people are worried about climbing sustained 23% grades while carrying luggage

In any case, ignoring that, what other components have people selected and enjoyed? I saw Erik was suggesting an RD that had a cage lock? The SRAM Via GT oeant have that, though the X0
Type 2 does.

I'm thinking I'll want disc brakes (it is really no fun having blowouts (ka-boom... thud... scraaaaaape) on descents).
Any suggestions on front (I.e. geared or normally rear) hubs that'll do discs?

 

[Rick Youngblood]

?I use the SRAM Via GT long

I use the SRAM Via GT long cage on my Silvio, I like it a lot because it has the cable adjuster. I have the Sram X9 Type-2 that Eric has talked about, it has cage lock, on my Vendetta. Both would be good choices for Sram brifters.

Or some people are worried about climbing sustained 23% grades while carrying luggage ~ Not if you take the bus

!

 

[Charles.Plager]

I have routinely ridden both

I have routinely ridden both of my Cruzbikes at under 3 mph pulling kids on a trail-a-bike or just riding really steep hills with no balance issues. I agree it depends on how much you like to spin compare to mash, but even with a low of 17", I've wished for lower.

So, personally, I'm a big fan of triples.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Charles, agreed! I think what

Charles, agreed! I think what Robert and I are saying is under most normal riding circumstances for a Silvio, you won't need the lower gearing you are accustomed to with other recumbent bikes due to its efficiency, and that the Silvio and Vendetta work best with doubles. However, if I'm climbing 23% grades loaded I may want something like the Quest with super low gearing or a car

!

 

[Robert Holler]

Anyone who can climb 23%

Anyone who can climb 23% sustained climbs loaded is a non-human or on a motorcycle.

;-)

 

[ratz]

super human or walk.

I've got a couple 18-23% on our MUP (sadist trail designers); with the Quest 20" + Trailer I'm good for oh about 30 maybe 50 feet; then I'm walking. I'd like to claim the wheel traction is the issue; but I don't like to lie.

 

[ReklinedRider]

Disc brakes

tagging on to Tiltmaniac's last post, is anyone using TRP disc brakes? If so, what's your opinion?

km

 

[ratz]

TRP HY/RD come recommend by the seasoned riders.

Well...

Vic and Dave out of Texas (BROL members) have a family full of bikers and a awful lot of miles. She put HY/RD on her new Encore and was raving about them. Perry Butler was in the process of putting them on his trikes. Frankly that's all I needed to know to order a set for my Quickr project.

Those HY/RD or either of the Spyre family should do you splendid; while I don't yet have them mounted; I trust these folks for no BS opinions on this stuff. If you do a build with HY/RD and don't like them; you can PM me and I'll buy them from you; I'm working a long plan to replace all my Avid's with TRP's.

 

[ReklinedRider]

TRP

Generous offer on the HY/RD's! I'm leaning more toward the Spyke-- this is to replace Avid BB7's on a trike, so the MTB option seemed reasonable. Just wondered if there was positive experience with the TRP brand and you've answered my question. Going to go ahead and order. Thanks!


km

 

[ratz]

MTB or Road many options.

Kline,

That's correct for MTB Levers the Sypke is the way to go. Good on The Quests for the Two wheeler crowd reading this thread, While The Sprye's have "Road" cable pull length for the Silvio/Vendetta Crowd.

FYI There are SRAM levers that have "road" pull lengths. The BL700 will substitute in many case if you like Avid Levers https://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/sram-bl700-brake-lever just check your handle bar diameter; then the Sprye become and option and the $20 savings will pay for new levers; (Still use MTB Cables, go figure). You also can then go to 140mm rotors; on a lot of trikes that's enough and gives more clearance.

That's actually why many people have be just going to the Hydro's, better braking and compatible with any lever cable put rate. By the time you change the levers for the Sprye your costs get similar costs and the brakes can carry forward for many bikes. Oh and those BB7's will sell fast on BROL so don't junk them.

There; this thread has wonder far a field and I brought it back to the S30 topic. My work here is done.