Cycling is transport, isn't it?

[Sylvain]

So I have some questions about the practilality of Cruzbikes:
Why don't you offer racks which will best fit your bikes? Good racks for all-suspended bikes seem hard to find, and I couldn't make for myself a mid-rack, even with «little ingenuity», as you write. You've got metalworking tools and skills; I haven't.
Why don't you offer paniers which will best fit your bikes (or at least a list of them) and the above-mentioned racks? Most paniers are designed for DF bikes, are quite short in the longitudinal axis and have a cut-off for the heels. Efficient bags for Cruzbikes would have an entirely diffent shape, I think. Paniers for commuting and paniers for touring.
Why don't you offer fenders which...? On most pictures, there are no fenders (which could show your bikes are more for sport than for practicality), but on those with fenders, the front one seems to be set in order to spray all the water (and mud) onto the front bracket (formerly bottom bracket) and onto the user's feet...
I even think something like a skirtguard could be useful to protect the legs from the water, the mud or even the snow falling off the wheel.
What about rain? I know this is something common to all recumbents, but one will need pants and boots very often. A fairing could be useful, but one will have to adapt (or make) the hardware by him/herself...

P.S. I put these questions in the Freerider subforum only because I had to choose a place, I don't know why.

 

[JonB]

Sylvain wrote: So I have some questions about the practilality of Cruzbikes:

I am not affiliated with Cruzbike Inc, but i feel i can provide an answer/comments for some of your points.

Sylvain wrote: Why don't you offer racks which will best fit your bikes? Good racks for all-suspended bikes seem hard to find, and I couldn't make for myself a mid-rack, even with «little ingenuity», as you write. You've got metalworking tools and skills; I haven't.

I too would like to see a good rack for all Cruzbike models. It might not be the same rack for all models.

I hope that Cruzbike Inc is in the process of copying my midrack, as i REALLY feel after just a few months of usage that it gives the bike SO much more value. :mrgreen:
I do not have any metalworking skills, but i did have access to metalworking tools to make the midrack. I bought access to Leitra.dk's workshop and also materials for the midrack from Leitra.dk. I do feel that you could make something similar as my midrack as long as you have access to a metal saw, drill and a something to hold onto the flat metal when you bend it.

I also think that given my postings in these forums it is possible to fit many rear racks to a Freerider or Softrider using just a metal saw, drill + some bolts, nuts and washers. I see little need for Cruzbike inc to sell a rear rack for Freerider/Softrider. I dont have a Silvio, but i think it is harder to get a good rack for that.

Sylvain wrote: Why don't you offer paniers which will best fit your bikes (or at least a list of them) and the above-mentioned racks? Most paniers are designed for DF bikes, are quite short in the longitudinal axis and have a cut-off for the heels. Efficient bags for Cruzbikes would have an entirely diffent shape, I think. Paniers for commuting and paniers for touring.

I think that it is because there are no panniers which are square. And ortlieb does have some recumbent panniers. As for special making, i think that there are too few buyers for that.

Sylvain wrote: Why don't you offer fenders which...? On most pictures, there are no fenders (which could show your bikes are more for sport than for practicality), but on those with fenders, the front one seems to be set in order to spray all the water (and mud) onto the front bracket (formerly bottom bracket) and onto the user's feet...
I even think something like a skirtguard could be useful to protect the legs from the water, the mud or even the snow falling off the wheel.

Some people live in areas with very little rain. Why should they pay for fenders they never use? Some people lives overseas. Why pay extra to ship the extra weight? the fenders may just be enough to put you into the next weight class. Further more, some of us has to pay customs and import VAT. Naturally i want the price as low as possible. I bought my fenders locally.

I have one of those "half" front fender. But it is actually quite rare that i get wet from spraying from the front wheel, even when going through large and deep potholes.

Sylvain wrote: What about rain? I know this is something common to all recumbents, but one will need pants and boots very often. A fairing could be useful, but one will have to adapt (or make) the hardware by him/herself...

Other people have been mounting fairings to their Cruzbike.

 

[John Tolhurst]

In short, Sylvain, if its not unique there is no point in me designing and selling it. But I do pay a lot of attention to make it so that accessories that work on regular bikes work also on the cruzbike as far as possible. For example, here is a cruzbike with a lovely set of bags on it.

 

[JonB]

johntolhurst wrote: In short, Sylvain, if its not unique there is no point in me designing and selling it.

You could let somebody else design it? Perhaps your production partner?

As for selling it through Cruzbike Inc? Extra money? increased value of your products and thus happier customers leading to more sales?

 

[John Tolhurst]

If anyone wants to produce and sell accessories they are free to do so and their efforts would be welcome. But choose wisely. Accessories are produced in their thousands for any particular model and profit margins for lower volume bespoke design is lower while design and research investment is higher per unit.

If you look at it there is very little that can't already be purchased.

 

[JonB]

johntolhurst wrote: If anyone wants to produce and sell accessories they are free to do so and their efforts would be welcome. But choose wisely. Accessories are produced in their thousands for any particular model and profit margins for lower volume bespoke design is lower while design and research investment is higher per unit.

If you look at it there is very little that can't already be purchased.

Yes i agree. I was mainly thinking of my midrack which i consider unique. I dont want to produce, but anyone is free to copy my idea and implementation.

 

[Sylvain]

Thanks for your comment.
You know, I don't want to have to rely on a metal saw to be able to fit a rack on a bike I'd have purchased.
And for the low volumes: RANS sells a rack and paniers which fit only one of their models (the Hammertruck) and other racks and paniers for their CF line (and all those panniers are rectangular...). And Lightfoot Cycles sells a midrack for their bikes.
Even if Cruzbike doesn't make their own stuff, they could tell us which makes and models fit their bike.

 

[John Tolhurst]

We provide a lot of personal support. What bike are you asking about? Thanks.

 

[Sylvain]

What bike? I don't know yet. I'm exploring possibilities. I always want info before buying anything.
As I read the info in this site, it seems one has to be a handyman to be in order to get most practicality from Cruzbikes. I'm not.
If you sold racks and paniers, I could be sure they would fit. That's why I ask why you don't.

 

[JonB]

Sylvain wrote: What bike? I don't know yet. I'm exploring possibilities. I always want info before buying anything.
As I read the info in this site, it seems one has to be a handyman to be in order to get most practicality from Cruzbikes. I'm not.
If you sold racks and paniers, I could be sure they would fit. That's why I ask why you don't.

You do not have to be a handyman if you buy the Freerider or the Sofrider. I had a normal bicyclerepairman find and put on fenders for my Freerider.

While i did put on my rear rack myself, you dont have to. Just print out my instructions and then let your bicyclerepairman mount a rear rack. Or, you can easily do it yourself.

As for the midrack, just find a metal workshop, give them the instructions for my midrack, and then let them manufacture something similar for you. Or make it yourself, even if you dont have a rod bending machine. Just get 2 pieces of solid aluminium rods in the length you want. Then get some flat aluminium 2 mm thick profile saw it on the approciate length and bend it into shape. Aluminium is soft, so you can do it with a pair of pliers, but a vice is recommended. If you just get the 2 pieces of rod, then you need 6 flat aluminiums, else only 5.

Then you need to drill holes into the flat aluminium pieces, which is easy because aluminium is soft.

Then some bolts, nuts and washers.

 

[Sylvain]

JonB wrote: While i did put on my rear rack myself, you dont have to. Just print out my instructions and then let your bicyclerepairman mount a rear rack. Or, you can easily do it yourself.

As for the midrack, just find a metal workshop, give them the instructions for my midrack, and then let them manufacture something similar for you. Or make it yourself, even if you dont have a rod bending machine. Just get 2 pieces of solid aluminium rods in the length you want. Then get some flat aluminium 2 mm thick profile saw it on the approciate length and bend it into shape. Aluminium is soft, so you can do it with a pair of pliers, but a vice is recommended. If you just get the 2 pieces of rod, then you need 6 flat aluminiums, else only 5.

Then you need to drill holes into the flat aluminium pieces, which is easy because aluminium is soft.

Then some bolts, nuts and washers.

I can install a rack, if it fits the bike. And it certainly doesn't, as you say I'd need your instructions. (Which ones?) And you invite me to make a midrack. But that doesn't tell me why Cruzbikes doesn't make them...

 

[JonB]

Sylvain wrote:

JonB wrote: While i did put on my rear rack myself, you dont have to. Just print out my instructions and then let your bicyclerepairman mount a rear rack. Or, you can easily do it yourself.

As for the midrack, just find a metal workshop, give them the instructions for my midrack, and then let them manufacture something similar for you. Or make it yourself, even if you dont have a rod bending machine. Just get 2 pieces of solid aluminium rods in the length you want. Then get some flat aluminium 2 mm thick profile saw it on the approciate length and bend it into shape. Aluminium is soft, so you can do it with a pair of pliers, but a vice is recommended. If you just get the 2 pieces of rod, then you need 6 flat aluminiums, else only 5.

Then you need to drill holes into the flat aluminium pieces, which is easy because aluminium is soft.

Then some bolts, nuts and washers.

I can install a rack, if it fits the bike. And it certainly doesn't, as you say I'd need your instructions. (Which ones?) And you invite me to make a midrack. But that doesn't tell me why Cruzbikes doesn't make them...

I believe that John answered why Cruzbike Inc does not make it.

The rear rack mounting can be found here:
http://www.cruzbike.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=132

And the midrack can be found here:
http://www.cruzbike.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=977

If you have questions, post in the threads above. I know that Gromit used my rear rack method, but he used different aluminium profile though.

 

[John Tolhurst]

If you want to put a rack, any of the post style ones fit, we don't make them. We don't make lights bells mirrors stands bags or any of the general purpose cycling accessories.

 

[Sylvain]

johntolhurst wrote: If you want to put a rack, any of the post style ones fit, we don't make them. We don't make lights bells mirrors stands bags or any of the general purpose cycling accessories.

How heavy are post racks rated? Quite low. Not useful for real life cycling.
I know you don't make bells, mirrors or stands (neither tires, wheels nor derailleurs), but you do put them on your bikes, so everyone knows they fit!

 

[Gromit]

Sylvain wrote:

johntolhurst wrote: If you want to put a rack, any of the post style ones fit, we don't make them. We don't make lights bells mirrors stands bags or any of the general purpose cycling accessories.

How heavy are post racks rated? Quite low. Not useful for real life cycling.
I know you don't make bells, mirrors or stands (neither tires, wheels nor derailleurs), but you do put them on your bikes, so everyone knows they fit!

Sylvain
I can understand your frustration. I guess that [URL='http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/images/produkte/ghp/HP_GrassHopperFx_tour_ErgoMeshSitz_rechts.jpg class="bb-url">this sort of rack system[/URL] is what you are after.
Click on the top image for a larger, detailed version of the picture
Sadly John T doesn't seem to be interested in designing a Cruzbike version of such a rack system. He probably thinks (rightly?) that not enough would be sold to justify the costs involved. C'est la vie

 

[JonB]

Sylvain wrote:

johntolhurst wrote: If you want to put a rack, any of the post style ones fit, we don't make them. We don't make lights bells mirrors stands bags or any of the general purpose cycling accessories.

How heavy are post racks rated? Quite low. Not useful for real life cycling.
I know you don't make bells, mirrors or stands (neither tires, wheels nor derailleurs), but you do put them on your bikes, so everyone knows they fit!

If you buy from a Cruzbike reseller i am sure you can get the reseller to mount the extra stuff you want.

 

[John Tolhurst]

Sylvain wrote:
How heavy are post racks rated? Quite low. Not useful for real life cycling.
I know you don't make bells, mirrors or stands (neither tires, wheels nor derailleurs), but you do put them on your bikes, so everyone knows they fit!

Sylvain,
you have two presumptions here that are causing your frustration.

1) Real life cycling requires load carrying of over 12 kg in a very small minority of cases. Hopefully cruzbike will expand and that wee segment which is close to your heart will become a large enough for me to design a product for. In the meantime, people who want to carry larger loads in my experience have the ability to address their needs on their own behalf. If that is not you, sorry, please come back later when perhaps we can accommodate you as well.
2) You assume that a cruzbike is a departure from the standards. I don't have to fit a bell for you to know it will fit. The bike uses standard componentry and where accessories are commonly (commonly, right, not rarely which is where you are) used the bike takes them. There is a rear rack I saw once that bolts to the brake mounts and rear axle of the rear unitary triangle. It would hold probably 25 kg. I wish I could find the reference to it for you.

I find your expectation that we have to solve your definition of cycling transport encouraging and you are definitely setting the goalposts. For now you will just have to accept my decision as to where I direct my design efforts. Since 2005 I have designed and produced 5 whole bikes, each one a vast departure from anything that has gone before it. That is my contribution to cycling as transport and I'm happy to be judged on it. This company is about fundamental research and development into cycling transport, at least until my long term development plan is complete.

 

[Gromit]

johntolhurst wrote:
There is a rear rack I saw once that bolts to the brake mounts and rear axle of the rear unitary triangle. It would hold probably 25 kg. I wish I could find the reference to it for you.

John

I wonder if you may be thinking of the Old Man Mountain Red Rocks rack. :?:
Better picture of it fitted to v-brake brake studs/bosses
Installation Instructions

 

[John Tolhurst]

Gromit wrote: I wonder if you may be thinking of the Old Man Mountain Red Rocks rack. :?:
Better picture of it fitted to v-brake brake studs/bosses
Installation Instructions

Ah ha! Genius Gromit spots it! You can load those babies up with a pretty big load. It would be interesting to know if you could put 30kg in two panniers on that, then add a topeak seattube rack, the angled up style for the bulky light stuff. http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=23968&category=3538.

Then get a pair of back packs and put the shoulder straps over the top tube, front and back of the seat. Now are carrying a pretty big load and the weight distribution of the bike is still around 50-50.

 

[Sylvain]

Gromit wrote: I wonder if you may be thinking of the Old Man Mountain Red Rocks rack. :?:
Better picture of it fitted to v-brake brake studs/bosses
Installation Instructions

Are you sure it'll fit rear suspension bicycles? This suspension is useful but makes fitting a rack much more complicated.

 

[Sylvain]

johntolhurst wrote:

Gromit wrote: Then get a pair of back packs and put the shoulder straps over the top tube, front and back of the seat. Now are carrying a pretty big load and the weight distribution of the bike is still around 50-50.

I can't visualize... :?: