Di2 on Silvio 2

BBL

Member
I have recently completed the build of my Silvio 2.0, except for the dozens of tweaks that will occur during the first several hundred miles or so. I have not seen a lot of posts related to mounting Di2 shifters on a Silvio, so I decided to share my installation. This task was made easier because I chose to install the 100mm chain stay extender. First some pictures of the finished product.

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I drilled a hole at the base of the boom. It is offset about 8 deg from the centerline of the bike to allow a little more clearance around the forward derailleur post. All excess wire runs are contained within the boom. The wires run from the shifters, along side of the handlebar, then through the slider at the base of the handlebar. The controller box attaches under the slider with a velcro cable tie, as shown in the picture below.

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The Di2, 4-wire junction block is located inside the boom. I used a 1000mm (aka 1m) cable out of the controller module. A second 1m cable goes to the rear derailleur. A 600mm cable goes to the forward derailleur and a 300mm cable to the battery. Excess wire is stuffed into the boom.

I made some modifications to the Silvio chain stay extension. A .500" wide shallow slot was cut into the rear land and a hole was tapped as shown in the picture below. The purpose of the slot is to eliminate the possibility of the battery rotating.

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It will become more apparent how this works later. The battery has a channel at its base, so a receiver for the channel needs to somehow be created for a secure fit. I used the attachment bar that came with the battery assembly and made a few modifications (cut it into pieces and machined the widths to suit). The picture below shows more of the details.

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The pin forward of the attachment flat head screw in the rear is required to prevent the three pieces from rotating. I could have machined a single custom piece, but I was in a hurry. So modifying the parts that I had in hand was much faster, and quite acceptable. A view from the other side is shown below.

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The small piece at the rear of the assembly sandwiched between battery slide plate and the base plate serves to create a receiver for the channel on the base of the battery. When the battery slides into position, this assembly is rock solid.

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I had to modify (extend) the slot cut for the forward derailleur. I am still about 1mm short of where I would like to be. Since the forward derailleur shifting has been flawless, I am not going to worry about it. But another 2mm of adjustment band would have been greatly appreciated last week. If I ever graduate into a larger chain ring (I am currently using the compact version), this won't be an issue. Hopefully, I won't be grinding in the other direction if I ever graduate.

I very much like the performance of the Di2 shifting. Both forward and rear are extremely smooth, easily shiftable, and completely silent. I also appreciate the auto-trim feature. I have SRAM Force on my Silvio 1.5. It is also very good. I chose the Di2 for the Silvio 2.0 only for the sake of experimentation, although it could easily become a luxury I soon won't be able to do without.
 

Jeremy S

Dude
That's quite a mod. I'm very

That's quite a mod. I'm very curious to try one of these electronic systems, but I don't think it will happen for a long time.

How about a picture of the whole bike? How do you like the 2.0 compared to your 1.5?
 

flashburn

New Member
Thanks for that, I'm quite

Thanks for that, I'm quite tempted to get on the silvio 2.0 bandwagon with Di2 and bullhorn bars.
 

Ivan

Guru
Brilliant mod and write-up.

Brilliant mod and write-up. Thanks very much!

A note on "trim" with my Silvio setup with SRAM Force 2013 and the chain extender: my FD has trim but it is completely unnecessary. Perhaps the longer chain with chainstay extension decreases the chain angle such that it is not needed. If I could choose, the FD would not have trim at all as it would save me a click. Of course with Di2 this is a complete non-issue.
 

Nanda Holz

Active Member
Nice work, perhaps John could

Nice work, perhaps John could implement your mods into the existing Silvio extension piece and add the lower boom hole with grommet. The FD setup would eliminate some headaches when sizing up demo customers :)
 
I don't believe the Di2

I don't believe the Di2 system has any feedback as far as trim adjustment goes. I think it is programmed to trim assuming a standard chainstay length. Hopefully trim is customizable using their software but if not then there might be an issue of he FD attempting to trim but it actually isn't necessary given the longer-than-normal chainstay length.
 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
With the longer chainstay

With the longer chainstay extension, the angle means that the chainstay is not really in danger of rubbing the derailleur cage, but Di2 will trim it anyway. This is not a problem, and is not noticeable in riding
 

BBL

Member
Jeremy and Elliot ……
 
My


Jeremy and Elliot ......

My Silvio 2 build is pretty much "off-the-rack". It has similar lines to Ivan's build, as I am using the 100mm chain stay extension, and I am about the same size. My uninspired pictures are below. The build you see is how it was today after my ride on Saturday. I change the bags and lights out depending on circumstances. I actually think Ivan's build is among the nicest I've seen, especially his contrasting wheels. But although the wheels are nice, I really like the Cruzbike wheels because of my first hand experience with their demonstrated quality and durability. I thought about going with Chris King hubs, Velocity rims, Sapim aero spokes, etc., but my experience with the Cruzbike wheels has been so positive, I went back to them.

On a trip I did this spring from Virginia to Florida, I traveled over some very rough roads in South Carolina and Georgia. I remember thinking that my wheels would definitely need truing after the trip. But when I got back home and checked them, they were as true as the day they came out of the box.

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You will see that I am using a "Night Rider 650" light on the front. I use it all the time in the flash mode (I only ride in the day unless I get stuck). It is very bright. On my trip to Florida, somewhere around Florence, SC, I met a guy from Germany. He was heading North from Key West to New York, solo-self-contained. He was riding something he referred to as "the truck" and flying the flag of Germany. Anyway, he said he saw my flashing light down the road for more than 5KM and thought it was from a road construction site. When he saw it was on a bicycle, he had to stop. We had an interesting conversation, and I took his recommendation to mount another "Night Rider" 650 on the rear of my Silvio 1.5, too. I have become a firm believer in active bicycle lighting while touring, especially solo. When I am riding in a group, though, I turn the rear white strobe off, as it is too bright and distracting to riders following close behind.

Right now, I have a large mirror attached. It was perfect for my Silvio 1.5, but I think the Zefal Spy Mirror would be a better choice for my Silvio 2 configuration. I have one on order. I'll try it when it arrives.

Pictures for another setup with a "Bachetta Brain Box" are below. I am not so sure this setup is the last word in aerodynamics, but it holds a lot of stuff. I hope I can find something better.

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When I use the "Brain Box", I cinch it down with straps that go from the bag and behind the seat stay and rear brake caliper. This load helps prevent bag tail wag, but it puts a heavy load on the head rest. If not offset, this load will drive head rest back down into the bike frame. To counter this, I have cut a small wood block that fits in the frame between the suspension cylinder and the base of the properly adjusted head rest. This support prevents the head rest from getting driven into the frame when I cinch down my "Brain Box" straps.

I have another "Night Rider 650" light mounted on the Brain Box. This is the bag I used all of the time on my Silvio 1.5. Somehow it seems a little out of place on my racier 2.0. The rear of the Brain Box has been stiffened with a thin aluminum plate. You may be able to see the attachment screws in one of the pictures.

Now for the question about Silvio 2.0 vs.1.5. I bought the 2.0 because of my expectation of performance gains. Yes, Silvio 2.0 has a more attractive hydro-formed frame, etc., etc., but I would not have upgraded after 7 months for that. I wanted another mile per hour out of the frame. I have not been disappointed.

I have a couple of relevant data points. I have a 30 mile loop that I ride often.
On my Silvio 1.5, I did the loop in 17.1 mph at an average power input of 145 watts. On my Silvio 2.0, the same loop at 17.1 mph required an average power of 126 watts. This was a lucky data point in that it is the only one I have with a significant average speed where the speed was exactly (within .1 mph) the same. I did not set out to do this in advance. I will leave it to you to do the math and draw your own conclusions.

Handling my 2.0 is different than my 1.5. The seat is more reclined and the bottom bracket is higher. My track on the 2.0 isn't as precise as on the 1.5, yet, but it is getting better with each ride. Not a data point, but interestingly, on the down hills where my 1.5 wanted to coast at about 26 mph my 2.0 coasts at 30 mph. Silvio 2.0 wants to roll!

I may or may not buy a Vendetta. I realize that the Vendetta will be faster than Silvio, but I like the Silvio's suspension. All and all Silvio 2.0 is the right bike for me.
 

romelman

Member
beautiful

nice!!! really like the silvio suspension, very forgiving compared to my other recumbent - metabike metaphysic.
 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
Thanks for comments,

Thanks for comments, including on the wheels. Our Cruzbike Aero 67s don't leave much on the table by way of hub, spoke nipple or rim quality and are built by one of the best outfits in Taiwan, who specialise in wheel building and who do the work for some of the best brands. They have all the right equipment to pre-stress the wheel before final truing.
 

ReklinedRider

Zen MBB Master
Really nice job

Beautiful build. I'm liking the all black builds i see tho i admit Ivan's contrasting wheels etc look great too.

A very minor question--how did you mount your Mirrycle mirror?

(if you plan to sell your 1.5 i would love to talk about it)
 
The Brain Box should reduce

The Brain Box should reduce your aerodynamic drag. The void behind our shoulders and head are responsible for a significant portion of the overall. Filling it, as you have done with the Brain Box, is a great step towards going faster.
 

BentBierz

Well-Known Member
Thanks for comments,

Thanks for comments, including on the wheels. Our Cruzbike Aero 67s don't leave much on the table by way of hub, spoke nipple or rim quality and are built by one of the best outfits in Taiwan, who specialise in wheel building and who do the work for some of the best brands. They have all the right equipment to pre-stress the wheel before final truing.

John,

I think you could sell even more wheels if you offered a sporty, Cruzbike logo'd wheelset for the "heavier" bike riding crowd. I tend to weigh between 220 and 230 with my best fighting weight probably at 210. Even at 210, I would hesitate to ride a bike that is lightly spoked. Rotational weight is very important but bigger riders need to be realistic when it comes to riding on wheels that the pros ride on. Not disparaging your wheels...from all reports, they are a very nice, strong wheel; I just personally would not be willing to take the chance.

The above said, I am building my own wheels so that I can run disc brakes and a SON dyno hub in back. Can't wait to begin building them.
 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
One nice thing about the

One nice thing about the Silvio is how the suspension protects the wheels from the biggest jolts. Honestly, we don't have exposure as a wheel maker, so that isn't a direction that is going to be good business for us, it will just soak up capital.
 

BentBierz

Well-Known Member
Honestly, we don't have

Honestly, we don't have exposure as a wheel maker, so that isn't a direction that is going to be good business for us, it will just soak up capital.

Thanks John...not being a business person I guess I don't understand how providing two different wheel sets to cover probably the vast majority of your clientele would be a bad thing. But, as I said, I'm not a business person and trust that if it was the right thing to do you guys would be doing it.
 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
I suppose its a stick to your

I suppose its a stick to your knitting kind of thing, or concentrating on your competitive advantage (bicycle frame design) or exploiting the barrier to entry you have in your favour (patents). Lots of people can do wheels, but not many can do MBB. So we put our efforts there. There is always a list of things that kind of make sense to do but are relegated behind stuff like getting the manuals updated.
 

BBL

Member
Kline ....
In answer to your


Kline ....

In answer to your question about my mirror, I purchased it from Calhoun Cycles. The web page is : ?http://www.calhouncycle.com/productcart/pc/Mirrors-c9.htm.

I got the information on a post that Ken Hardwick made some time ago. If you search on Silvio Mirrors on the cruzbike forum, you can get a number of other options.
 

BentBierz

Well-Known Member
There is always a list of

There is always a list of things that kind of make sense to do but are relegated behind stuff like getting the manuals updated.

Now that business decision I can fully understand! ;)
 
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