Diet: Low Carb and Ultra Cycling

[ratz]

The Team Sky Nutritionist James Morton mentioned in a video when his riders are right on the money when their muscles can burn both carbs and fat. Seems this is a bit counter to the Keto theory and just adds more confusion. I think Team Sky is simply putting out BS but seriously what do I know?

Traditional base training trains you to burn fat; you have to build that aerobic base first.
Interval training teachs you to stack glucose burning on top of the fat burning; you train this second.

You can base train forever; daily just like doing sit-ups; only the boredom can kill you; great for watching TV on your coach made out of that old silvio.
Interval training you have to periodize and seasonalize or you break down and get sick if you over train.

The big and broader your aerobic base the taller you can build your glucose anaerobic abilities.
On race day you gotta burn both; the bigger the aerobic base the longer or faster you can go anaerobic.

With the big race guys they've always done the base stuff; they have just been notoriously sloppy on diets
Ulrich, Petone always had to ride themselves into shape and could only do well at 1 or 2 big events each season
There are a few Keto-ish guys on the tour but they eat a lot of carbs by keto standards, just the good carbs.
Zabriskie was going to be a good story but he got injured in an crash and is likely done for his career now.

On the other side of the coin is Ultra. as Ultra gets over 24 hours the anaerobic becomes less and less important; different sport.


Oh and watch out for the motorcyles on the mountains.

 

[LMT]

What the guy says is straightforward and I agree. Ratz has it right.

However I would like to know what guys on tour are on a keto-ish diet. I would not mind having a look at their eating plans if there is any information regarding this. My guess is that they take on a lot of lean carbs i.e carbs with very little to no fat but eat a fair amount of nuts and fatty fruits to keep their fat levels up, which is not a keto diet of course.

 

[ratz]

However I would like to know what guys on tour are on a keto-ish diet. I would not mind having a look at their eating plans if there is any information regarding this. My guess is that they take on a lot of lean carbs i.e carbs with very little to no fat but eat a fair amount of nuts and fatty fruits to keep their fat levels up, which is not a keto diet of course.

Yeah that's pretty spot on; there was an article last year in velo about more riders forgoing the traditional Grains and Rice in favor of cleaner burning carbs. Keto hasn't not much traction there; younger bodies more resilient engines; capable of handling more abuse, then the old guys moving into vegetarian, vegan or keto depending on their biases.... If you polled the riders of the TDF I suspect the diets would break down as: Junk, Balanced, Vegetarian, Vegan, Keto with the percentage dropping exponentially as you move down that list left to right. The big change is the acceptance of clean burning fat as important; before it was all about the carbs regardless of which quality or sources you preferred. The resonance of aerobic base seem to coincide with the number of drugs they can get away with and not get caught being regulated down.

Mean while the number a kale chips consumed increase exponentially left to right

 

[snilard]

Hello all low-carbers. I am on keto diet for ~2 weeks. I read "Art and science of low carbohydrate performance", no I am reading "Grain brain". I have few questions that was meybe answered before but I cannot read all posts here in detail.

• Do you use any nutrition tracker (like myfitnesspal)? What?
• Do you measure your blood ketones? What device do you use?
• What is your favorite cookbook? Book, app or web page.
• Do you use any suplements? Like vitamin C etc.

 

[ratz]

• Myfitnesspal
• Rarely unless struggling, then a simple pack of testing strips
• https://www.pinterest.com/pluckyblond/ketolow-carb-recipes
  
• https://www.pinterest.com/apaparella/ketogenic-explore/
  
• Same vitamins as before, but additional amino acids if running < 100g of carbs

 

[trapdoor2]

• Myfitnesspal
• No. Years ago, I used test strips...but I found I could easily smell when I went into ketosis. No need for them now...and we're not really doing a keto diet anyway (although it is very close, many days I consume well under 100g of carbs). My plan is to get to my goal weight (because what we're doing is working) and then shift over to a more Paleo/Primal diet (right now I'm averaging less than 30g of fats/day).
• I don't have a favorite cookbook...just pick up recipes from wherever (online). Our weight-loss clinic has just started posting recipes on pintrest.
• We're required only to add Fish Oil (Omega 3 type) to our standard supplements (multivitamin).

 

[snilard]

Rarely unless struggling, then a simple pack of testing strips

Do you mean urine strips? I have read that this method is not accurate and when in ketosis for some time your acetone in urine does not corellate to your blood ketones.

 

[ratz]

Do you mean urine strips? I have read that this method is not accurate and when in ketosis for some time your acetone in urine does not corellate to your blood ketones.

Correct on both parts; they only work when you are getting into Ketosis once you get in and stay in they don't work well. They work well for starting out or if you fall off the program and then need to get back on it.

 

[cranky cyclist]

For all those high fat low carb diet people. There may be a new supplement coming out soon that will enhance ketone burning. It is a ketone ester which is a precursor to ketone bodies. It would be available as a drink. This drink when given to elite athletes doing a 30 minute TT had an increase of 400 meters with the drink. It is called DeltaGr. sorry I didn't know how to make a triangle for Delta and the r has a circle as in the trademark.

 

[Don1]

didja know there is a keto breathelizer?... sesrch ketonix... simple to use and one off purchase with good accuracy.....

 

[snilard]

didja know there is a keto breathelizer?... sesrch ketonix... simple to use and one off purchase with good accuracy.....

Do You have any article or web page reference about Ketonix accuracy?

 

[cranky cyclist]

I know it is mentioned on the CB blog Keto, Cruzbike and cancer. The video The Many Facets of Keto Adaptation; Health Performance and Beyond

 

[snilard]

I know it is mentioned on the CB blog Keto, Cruzbike and cancer. The video The Many Facets of Keto Adaptation; Health Performance and Beyond

I know Ketonix but I am not convinienced that it is possible to exactly track your ketisis with this device.

 

[1happyreader]

Snilard, read read read, don't trust nobody including me. hah ha.

accuracy,,, exactly ,,, are for machinists and binary math .
Medicine uses reproducible precision indicators.
There are no methods to directly measure when we are in ketosis .
All we can measure are the various byproducts of a process that has already happened.

[example process: river and erosion
positive indicator - water contains more silt = erosion has happened.
cumulative effect - loss of riverbank. can be measured, but is in past.]

Must note that we are attempting to detect or measure three different byproducts of fat burning and all method's assume consistent samples.
(urine) Acetoacetate - screening, great for detecting a increase the body can't handle, a sudden flood.
(breath) Acetone - positive indicator, almost real-time percision indication of intensity, low med high.
(Blood) Beta-hydroxybutyrate - cumulative effect, not real-time, measurable maintenance levels.

One of my favorite pathologists always stressed "clinical significance " over the assigned numbers given to instrument results.
hope you enjoyed my soapbox speech,,, later,,, bye.

 

[ratz]

One of my favorite pathologists always stressed "clinical significance " over the assigned numbers given to instrument results. hope you enjoyed my soapbox speech,,, later,,, bye.

The collective IQ and experience on this forum; can be terrifying. We will have to refrain from discussing Plutonium.

 

[cranky cyclist]

The best you can get for accuracy is a trend. The ketonix breathalyzer costs about 160 dollars. I am not sure how much it costs to test with strips.

 

[Cruzbike Chris]

Belt notches and pant size works every time! Not scientific but damn accurate in my book.

 

[snilard]

(Blood) Beta-hydroxybutyrate - cumulative effect, not real-time, measurable maintenance levels.

In my understanding of world this is direct measurement of your ketosis state. It will be lower in the morning and higher after exercise. There is stated that nutritional ketosis if from 0.5 mmol/l to 5 mmol/l in blood. But what is range for breath measurement? Ketonix gives different numbers?

Belt notches and pant size works every time! Not scientific but damn accurate in my book.

It doesn't. I don't want to lose any weight.

 

[1happyreader]

Ketonix gives different numbers?

Ketonix is measuring a different byproduct than the blood methods.

 

[Zzzorse]

Nutritional Ketosis Alters Fuel Preference and Thereby Endurance Performance in Athletes

"Achieving ketosis by feeding d-βHB in an acid or salt form is not advisable due to the accompanying acid/salt load. To circumvent this, and the unwanted dietary restriction of adhering to a ketogenic diet, we generated an edible form of a ketone body by transesterifying ethyl (R)-3-hydroxybutyrate with (R)-1,3-butanediol using lipase (Figure 1; Table S1). Previously we have shown the nutritional ingestion of this (R)-3-hydroxybutyl (R)-3-hydroxybutyrate ketone ester (KE) is a safe and effective way of elevating blood ketone levels (Clarke et al., 2012, Shivva et al., 2016) and provides a means of investigating human ketone metabolism independent of caloric or CHO deficit."

http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(16)30355-2

Conclusion

"We have demonstrated the metabolic effects of elevated circulating ketone bodies as a fuel and biological signal to create a unique physiological condition. Ketosis may alter substrate competition for respiration, while improving oxidative energy transduction under certain conditions, such as endurance exercise. Consequently, nutritional ketosis may help to unlock greater human metabolic potential."