Do you push or do you pull?

[ccf]

When climbing or sprinting or just trying to avoid foot-steer, do you pull on the bars or push on them, or both? I have mostly been pulling on them, and I find that my arms get really sore after longer rides or rides with a lot of climbing. I've started doing more pushing, or pushing on one side while pulling on the other. I find myself slipping up the seat of my Silvio if I only push.

-Cliff

 

[LarryOz]

When climbing or sprinting or just trying to avoid foot-steer, do you pull on the bars or push on them, or both? I have mostly been pulling on them, and I find that my arms get really sore after longer rides or rides with a lot of climbing. I've started doing more pushing, or pushing on one side while pulling on the other. I find myself slipping up the seat of my Silvio if I only push.

Since I ride with a tiny little 12" wide handlebar, I am not able to push or pull very much at all.
My solution to avoid much pedal steer is to have a higher cadence and also try and have fairly constant pressure around the whole pedal stroke. Also a higher cadence means less force on the pedals each time them come around, since they are coming around more quickly.
Good Luck

 

[Rick Youngblood]

When I climb, I like to relax my arms and upper body, and let my legs do most of the work, like Larry said a nice well rounded spin minimizes any noticeable pedal steer, this way I'm able to conserve.preserve energy for sprints and down hills, or to not expend energy I don't have. Sometimes on super fast down hills that may have surprises, I will push on the handlebars to lodge my back into the seat so I don't bounce my body off the seat, this would be for hitting ruts, bridge transitions, ants, etc.

 

[Jeremy S]

Pull, mostly.

 

[bladderhead]

A small amount of both, with slightly more pulling.

Anyway, I agree with Larry. High cadence is good. The moment the bike starts to steer left, you are pushing it right. Subdue the bike by confusing it. Also, try to push down on the pedal when it is pointing forward. This produces no steering input.

 

[hoyden]

I am also coming around to higher cadence. During a ride yesterday where I was testing the gear shifting I shifted into the big ring and littlest cog to verify the gear change and the pedal steer was quite pronounced. This was my cadence ah-ha moment. For me the high cadence does not translate into fastest speed and shifting to a smaller cog and some slight mashing usually gives me an extra 0.5 mph speed increase. I don't have a cadence meter but I estimate my low cadence at about 60 rpm and high isn't more than 120.

 

[bladderhead]

The way to high cadence is through the use of short cranks.

 

[DavidCH]

The hills aren't too big over here so I pull. Mostly, I noticed that with the bullhorns further away I had too much tension on my forearm tendons so moving the bullhorns further back by a cm was much better. If the hill is higher I choose an easier gear with a higher cadence and just put my head back and spin.

 

[MrSteve]

Both, usually switching between pushing and pulling and alternatively both pulling and pushing at once.
The third option available for inputting arm power is, by lying extra-flat on the seat back and gripping the brifter hoods,
my arms are straight: In this position, my shoulders can do the push-or-pull/ push-and-pull thing.
My shoulders can do this much longer than my wimpy arms can.

As you found out, your legs easily overwork your arms.

Another way, my favourite method, to put down all the power you're capable of generating, without stressing your arms,
is to rock your bike in time with your pedal strokes.
You're riding a D.F. bike, reconfigured as a recumbent bike.
Realize this... it's literally true.
Now, rather than read my rambling description of how I fling my bike around,
go to Youtube and watch videos of professional sprinters racing for the line.
Watch how they handle their bikes.
Learn to do what they learned to do.

Good luck,
hope this helps and
you're welcome!

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Cliff, here is a thread I started a few years ago when I got my Silvio. I had to go back and re-read my learning experience and first impressions of pedal steer.

0 - 300 miles:

http://cruzbike.com/forum/threads/i...p-and-my-first-ride-and-300-miles-later.7102/

1000 miles later:

http://cruzbike.com/forum/threads/1000-miles-later.7425/#post-107425


As far as avoiding pedal steer, I don't think you can completely. But it will become unnoticeable over time, to where you don't think about it. It will become second nature and you will no longer feel the soreness in your arm. Your legs and arms will work harmoniously together. You won't even realize your arm are countering the pedal steer. You will be able to decide just how much effort you want to ingage your arms and upper body into the ride. A lot of the pedal steer will be - can be controlled with your legs. Jim wrote a thread on climbing http://cruzbike.com/blog/2015/11/10/tips-for-fast-climbing/ , I also think it's in his blog. It demonstrates just how much upper body you can ingage, I think possible what Steve was referring to.

Edit: As you can see Cliff. Everyone is different and has different preferences. Some push, some pull, some push and pull, and others may not do anything but relax and enjoy the climb, there no right or wrong. What's important is to practice flats with perfection to adapt yourself to the MBB. Once the pedal steer feels likes it's no longer something you think about, you will be more relaxed for climbs, which will take some nervousness away, keeping in mind climbing also takes practice. The more you climb the more stable you will become, and the more relaxed you will feel. Engaging the upper body is user determined and is not really necessary if you don't want to use it.

Btw, it should be noted, when first learning the MBB, it's common to fee soreness in your arm and even your chest because you are working new muscle groups and you are over counter steering.

 

[Bill K]

I mostly pull.
But when I am riding directly into the morning sun, I have one hand on the handlebars and one hand to shield my eyes.
When I ride one-handed like this I both push and pull. So, right hand on the handlebars, pull when the right leg is powering and push when the left leg is powering.
It is good practice, and it lets you rest one arm at a time.

 

[LMT]

When I first started riding I used to put way too much emphasis on my upper body to deliver power rather than my legs. This can be quite tiring to say the least. As Rick mentioned, try and keep the upper body relaxed, get a nice cadence going and you should find it less strain on the upper body.

In answer to your question the only time I'll really pull on the bar (I don't push) is when going on short climbs. I'll typically get some speed up, start the climb, gradually changing down the gear to keep the cadence up and to stop me going into the red. Crest the hill an repeat when needed.

 

[Emeljay]

When learning to ride FWD MBB I started with the learning to ride tips on the Cruzbike website, and for me concentrated on pulling handlebar same side as leg was pushing on the pedal, but now it is not a conscious effort as I just do it without thinking. I now go straight or turn without thinking about what I need to do while gabbing water bottle or doing some adjustment, acelerating, turning, etc, also not so much pulling on handlebar on side leg is pedalling. I don't try to over think it now as it is working seemingly effortlessly. I now think it and just do it. When changing bike configuration like I did with x100 steering I did do daily fig 8s slow and fast as well as local MUP which has many ups and downs (small hills and turns) which helped me to become comfortable and acquire skills for new configuration. Miles upon miles of commuting over the last year and a half and off day adventures as well as the skills training is what seems to me gives me this natural feel for riding as I do. Note that I do not race, but float effortlessly along in comfort on my Cruzbike to work or home, or on leisure rides with friends whom some of who I'm teaching to ride Cruzbikes. So my bit to all is to ride to acclimate to this marvelous machine and to not over think it. Start at the learning to ride suggestions on the website, and then put in the miles!

 

[Bruce B]

For a time I carried a cell phone in an armband worn on the upper arm when riding a Silvio 1.0. Always made me aware of the upper arm muscle contractions while the bike was essentially going straight down the road.

 

[marshall2389]

When I was doing my best climbing I kept medium cadence, solidly connected my back to the seat, and kept my arms relaxed. I mostly pushed through my low back but could move the pressure upwards (towards and including bridging) for power bursts.

 

[ccf]

My question wasn't so much about foot-steer or control. It's about the fact that on rides with a lot of elevation gain, I find that my biceps and forearms are A LOT more sore than my legs. I'm going to start experimenting with strategies other than pulling on the bars so much. But on grades greater than about 12% I often find that I have to sit up to avoid front wheel slip, which obviously means pulling hard on the bars.

-Cliff

 

[Balor]

Neither.
Scrape, as in generate power by flexing the knee and pulling the leg down on 'downward' motion and 'kicking' the leg up on up motion.
This way no pedal feedback is apparent and you can go a long way in a rather relaxed manner.

If you really need LOTS of power, you push with your quads and glutes and pull those bars like a heavy lifter. Tiring, but very effective as compared to pushing against seat back, that results in hysteresis losses in your tissues as they get compressed and uncompressed, generation heat as internal friction. Exact loss ratio depends on many variables, but loss factor of flesh is about 30%. Think on that.