Experiences Silvio S30 installed a Schlumpf SD/HSD & Rohloff hub ?

[Martinius Berg]

Does anyone of the forum members tried out the following combination on there Silvio recumbent 20 or 30 series ?

Following installation:
Schlumpf Speed drive or High Speed drive combined with the Rohloff 14 speed hub ?

Sinc. Martinius Berg

 

[ratz]

On a Silvio you would probably want a mountain drive instead the speed drive. Having used both the HSD and MTD on a trike for over 5000 miles and written rather voluminously about it on BROL; it would be my expectation that on a Silvio the HSD would be in overdrive most of the time. Since over overdrive is the least efficient mode that would push me towards highly preferring the MTD. The MTD would be in direct drive most of the time; and under-drive when you had long steep climbs. It has the added advantage that you could install two rings and a derailleur if you liked and you'd have a Massive gear range that Charles would love. The only draw back you might find with 2 rings would be that you'd be well within the FWD Tire slipping ranges of power at the absolute low end. Disadvantage of the drives? Weight on the nose. I don't see the heel button as an obstacle; and the BB on the front has sufficient metal to be chamfered. Probably the only reason I haven't done that to my Silvio is the Derailluer works fine and not doing it saves me $600.

The Rohlof is more problematic; it's been done at least once and documented somewhere here on the forums; it's non-trivial; but given the quality of rear derailleurs and 10/11sp setups these days I'm not sure it would be worth the cost and the hassle. The Schmulpf would solve most of the problems you might be chasing.

 

[Charles.Plager]

If I really wanted to do a IGH, I'd run a front derailleur with it instead of HSD or MTD. Switching the front happens much more infrequently and you can save both money and complexity this way. The new Silvio has 132.5mm spacing, so you ought to be able to get a 135mm IGH to fit. You'll need a chain tensioner, etc.

I do agree with Bob about MTD over HSD. And I agree with Bob that a derailleur system works well enough that I would likely not bother personally on a Silvio (or Vendetta).

 

[Robert Holler]

The newer iterations of the Silvio that have the front clamps around the BB shell can not take a Schlumph - it is physically not possible. It would also add weight to the front MBB which would not improve the handling at all.

The new S30 fork is 132.5 spacing so technically hubs can fit, but ultimately it is still primarily intended to be a road bike with standard road components and anything other than that are not really applications that I recommend on the Silvio. It is a lot of work for little gain (my opinion)

The early Silvios that had the narrower chainstay clamps that did NOT use the BB shells for support could possibly incorporate a Schlumph, but I am not sure what the gain would be other than a DR free setup for the front end. They cannot take a hub though as those forks are 130 spacing. Again the intended design was as a road bike with typical road components.

A Quest however, could be set up this way - possibly as an ultimate tourer with fatter tires. That I can see. It would still be a heavy rig though once it was done.

Robert

 

[ratz]

front clamps around the BB shell can not take a Schlumph

Opps forgot about that.

 

[jond]

with the range available these days adding the extra weight as outlined is now not necessary or possible despite their beauty. every gram has to be ridden up that hill. keep it light as possible and as intended. a compact with an 11-40 cluster will pull up any hill with most engines covered by the range. the weather protection factor is a plus but the weight is a killer.

 

[tiltmaniac]

On my 3000 mile tour, I way overgeared the bike. I ended up using the 50->36 gear for the hills and still had wheel-slip.
I'd just go with a 11 spd 10-42 cluster were I to do it again. It is far more simple, it is (quite a bit) lighter, you have less cables to run, and the range is about the same as a Rohloff.

Or, I might just go with the Rohloff. They *are* pretty sweet, and they require far less maintenance after riding in the rain while having about the same gearing range as the 11spd.

If you're not touring, I've heard wonderful things about the Di2 system. Yes, it has derailleurs, but it also removes most of the hassle of derailleurs (adjustments)...

 

[Paruig]

I have been using A Rohloff Speedhub for a while now and am very happy with it.
It is a 26" wheel I have owned for a few years and the lack of maintenance is a plus for me.
The Silvio dropout did not allo me to fit the Rohloff chain tensioner so I am currently using a front derailleur as a tensioner.
I have a spare dropout that I plan to file down so the Rohloff tensioner can be mounted.

 

[Martinius Berg]

Paruig

Well thank you sir in giving this information. I would be very interested to have a closer look at your drive train set up. Is it possible that you could make a photo of your bicycle and publish it here at the forum site ?

I find it technically interesting to know how ratio calculators show what happens when using a Rohloff in combination with 26 or 28 inches wheels and the difference in how many meters the bike moves foreword . It shows that bigger sized then 26 inches wheels give more meters but makes the bike a bit heavier to pedal fore ward .

I am shore that less maintenance with the Rohloff is a big plus instead of using a 11 or 12 speed cassette made by sample Scram or Campagnolo, but as the Rohloff is heavier then most cassettes it is a minor dis - advantage ! As the Rohloff have internal wider gear ranges then any cassettes on the marked the exchange ratio gives more advantages in general.

My questions to you are : is the Rohloff single speed technically a good solution in combination with a 2 crank chain wheels setup instead of 1 , and does it give negative steering effects because of its extra weight ?

Looking forward to your answer Martinius.

I have been using A Rohloff Speedhub for a while now and am very happy with it.
It is a 26" wheel I have owned for a few years and the lack of maintenance is a plus for me.
The Silvio dropout did not allo me to fit the Rohloff chain tensioner so I am currently using a front derailleur as a tensioner.
I have a spare dropout that I plan to file down so the Rohloff tensioner can be mounted.

 

[Paruig]

Sorry for the delay in responding.
A couple of photos attached:

 

[Martinius Berg]

Thanks fore the photos you shared and i have some some questions to you sir

Does the Rohloff gear hub weight inflict your steering stability ?
Is it possible to install the Rohloff in 700 C front wheel ?
When climbing hills normally 2 or 3 q rings would be needed on the crank , does the Rohloff single speed allows that combination ?

 

[Charles.Plager]

Thanks fore the photos you shared and i have some some questions to you sir

Does the Rohloff gear hub weight inflict your steering stability ?
Is it possible to install the Rohloff in 700 C front wheel ?
When climbing hills normally 2 or 3 q rings would be needed on the crank , does the Rohloff single speed allows that combination ?

Since I know nothing, I figured I'd answer first and let the people who really know what's going on answer later.

1) Since the weight of the hub is over the tire patch, I wouldn't think it would make the steering feel much heavier. (Getting feedback from somebody who actually rode with one would be good.)

2) I wouldn't think the hub would affect the size of rim that could be used. (I've been wrong before).

3) A fair number of people use a Rohloff hub with a double or triple crank. This allows you to have a tremendous range.

 

[Paruig]

Charles is correct on all three points.
Steering is not affected by the weight of the Rolhoff hub, though it feels front-heavy when lifting it.
I have 26" wheels to allow me to use wider tyres. The bike is designed for 700c though.
I am using a single chainring and have geared it to give me low gears for hillclimbing and that does limit the high-end.

 

[baov]

I've ridden with a nuvinci n360 (heavier than rohloff) in my softrider and it doesn't handle any worst than when I was trying out the cruzbike conversion on an old 24" kid's bike with derailleur.

Paruig, how big a 26" can the Silvio take ?

 

[DuncanWatson]

I use a Rohloff on my FWD Raptobike. I don't use any front chainrings at all but I do use a 53tooth Q-Ring. It rides very well and you don't notice the weight on the steering at all. Now that bike isn't a MBB FWD but it rides like it is on rails and corners like a dream.

 

[jslipscomb]

Specs and discussion of my Rohloff SPEEDHUB Silvio S30 v2.2 Build over at the Silvio Brag Board forum. Rohloff is combined with a Shimano Ultegra Triple Crankset. Direct link:
http://www.cruzbike.com/forum/threads/rohloff-speedhub-silvio-s30-v2-2-build.8912/

 

[Martinius Berg]

Thanks for the information Duncan.

Very useful reading it is . Tell me more about your riding experiences of the Raptobike versus your Vendetta .

Sinc. Martinius Berg

I use a Rohloff on my FWD Raptobike. I don't use any front chainrings at all but I do use a 53tooth Q-Ring. It rides very well and you don't notice the weight on the steering at all. Now that bike isn't a MBB FWD but it rides like it is on rails and corners like a dream.

 

[DuncanWatson]

My raptobike is wonderful. The main downside is throwing the chain on occasion and the idler is near my right inner thigh and I get grease transfer. I still have a grease stain there since many of my bib shorts are contaminated with it and I get transfer. It is more Aerodynamic than my Vendetta as configured and its terminal speed downhill is quite high. I have had the Rapto up to 56mph. It does have higher rolling resistance with the Rohloff and a dynohub rear wheel. The Rohloff is wonderful. I had issues for a while with the shifting cables but once I got the right cables and everything adjusted it has been a dream. When a Rohloff fails due to cables you can manually shift it to the gear you want. Turning your bike into a single speed that can be manually switched when you need to. This has allowed me to ride home in more than one case. I had issues because I had the wrong cables and they were mis-configured. It is nice to have the wide range of the Rohloff and shifting is easy and it is great to be able to shift standing still. For racing I prefer the more fine grained shifting of a tightly spaced cassette.

 

[Charles.Plager]

For racing I prefer the more fine grained shifting of a tightly spaced cassette.

For the record, this is why I don't understand why people poo-poo triples. You can get your nice tight cassette and still have the range.

Oh well...

 

[mzweili]

Charles,
based on your (and Dana's) recommendations I built my Silvio 2.1 with a 30-39-50 with 165mm cranks and 11-36 cassette. By the end of this season I'm going to change it to a 34-50 with 150mm cranks. After 3000 km on my Silvio I'm able to climb most hills in my area with the 39t ring.
When my speed under effort drops below 8 km/h I encounter problems with the balance, therefore a lower gear-ratio wont help me.
Anyway on hills of 12% and more, my motor gets stuck (model year 1945).