First Silvio ride was a wash...literally

[castlerobber]

A 50/36 combined with a 12-36 should give a combination where they are all usable even if severally cross chained.

I have a 50/34. I can easily stay away from 34-12, whether it rubs or not. I'd like to have 50-28 usable. 50-32 would be a bonus.

There are two reasons they wouldn't would be all usable: (1) if the Qrings are out of phase relative to each other. (2) you are really short causing the angle of attack on the chain to be really steep.

(1) I set up the Q-rings, making sure they were in phase, and that seemed to help the shifting.
(2) I'm 5'5", and my x-seam is about 40.5". Does that count as short?

For the over shift; I would redo the Yaw derailleur setup from scratch; while it's a touch harder to setup with q-rings it can be done; but it's not like setting up a traditional derailleur. The video help alot.

Sounds like a Sunday afternoon project. I've never (successfully) adjusted a front derailleur, much less a Yaw.

This is my case, with everything working perfectly or near perfectly.

SILVIO 2.0
50t Q-ring x 34t Q-ring.
Long cage Sram rear-derailleur.
13t to 42t 10 speed XT customized cassette
Sram Force 22 Yaw FD (this thing is key, at least in my opinion for the wide range, and chain rub)

So it can be done.

It just occurred to me that I have a SRAM X7 medium-cage rear derailleur with a chain-wrap capacity of 35, that I chose when I thought I'd be using a 46T big ring instead of a 50T. Is that part of the problem? Do I need to put a long-cage derailleur on there? The LBS didn't even mention that as a possibility.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

The longer RD is basically going to take up more chain-wrap and allow wider gear range usages. But should not cause the dropped chain problem. I think I remember Ratz having the chain rub the FD with the medium cage RD's.

With the wide gear ratio you are using, I would recommend going with the long RD.

The Yaw FD is pretty easy to setup and install, takes about the same amount of time as a regular FD, maybe less once you get the hang of it. I find it more efficient than the standard FR's. As a matter of fact, I would get chain FD rub with the standard and could not fine tune the rub out.

I set the BIG ring up first: it's easier to line up the marks on top and bottom of the FD cage with the big ring.

This also gets the FD parallel with the chaining. To do this I turn the set-screw for the small ring so the FD is in line with the big ring and centered.

I then adjust the big ring set-screw so it keeps the chain from rubbing in all gears, testing.

Then I un-screw the small ring adjustment set-screw rotating the cranks until the chain drops down onto the small ring.

Then test, and make tiny-minor adjustments if necessary (most of the time not necessary), for chain rub or drop. Done!

 

[castlerobber]

With the wide gear ratio you are using, I would recommend going with the long RD.

Will do. Gives me an excuse to get the Type 2 while I'm at it.

Thanks!

 

[Abbott Smith]

I have no experience with the S 1.5, but from what I can see looking at online pic's of them, the front end looks identical to the S 2.

This is my case, with everything working perfectly or near perfectly.

SILVIO 2.0
50t Q-ring x 34t Q-ring.
Long cage Sram rear-derailleur.
13t to 42t 10 speed XT customized cassette
Sram Force 22 Yaw FD (this thing is key, at least in my opinion for the wide range, and chain rub)

VENDETTA 2.0
52t Q-ring x 34t Q-ring.
Long cage Sram rear-derailleur.
13t to 42t 10 speed XT customized cassette
Sram Force 22 Yaw FD (this thing is key, at least in my opinion for the wide range, and chain rub)

It takes some fine tuning/incremental adjustments to get the Yaw to shift without chain drops and /or FD rubs. I'm extremely happy with this setup and could not have it better.

I access to all gear ranges. Big to big and small to small. Small to small has a tiny amount chain over lap, and is something I only use for a short periods before I go up or back down a gear. The Big to big gets used quite often. It's also my starting from dead stop gear range. I'm able to eliminate all chain rub on the FD side to side and bottom. My shifts are quite good, I'm picky and can't stand miss-shifts or ghost shifting.

I just can't understand why your LB can't get it fixed for you. They should at least be able to get the shifting tuned so you don't drop the chain. I would suggest trying an other bike shop.

EDIT: I should mention: I don't go by the 2mm rule for the FD, otherwise the chain will rub in BIG-ring/small-cog on the bottom of the FD cage. I slide the FD up until there is about 1mm of clearance on the bottom of the FD cage.

Rick. How hard is the XT conversion? I just ordered an XT and the Wolf 42t. Threw in the longer B screw as well.

Seattle area hills and I just don't get along at 34/32.

 

[Charles.Plager]

Seattle area hills and I just don't get along at 34/32.

Cough cough triple cough cough

 

[Abbott Smith]

Cough cough triple cough cough

Cough cough Schlumpf Mountain Drive. Cough cough

Actually the compact double and 42t get me the same low end I had on my triples.

 

[ratz]

Cough cough Schlumpf Mountain Drive. Cough cough

Actually the compact double and 42t get me the same low end I had on my triples.

Actually the patterson would be easier to mount on a quest or softrider.... but yeah schlumpf would be cool almost did that on the Quickr.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Rick. How hard is the XT conversion? I just ordered an XT and the Wolf 42t. Threw in the longer B screw as well.

Seattle area hills and I just don't get along at 34/32.

Nothing to it Abbott. You have a couple of options. Remove one of the smaller cassette cogs, 13-15-17, and place the new 42t first on the wheel spline/hub followed by the other cassette cogs. You also have the option to replace 15 and 17 cog with a 16t. I didn't like the the shifting ratio jumps from 13 15 19, I missed the 17, seems to be a gear I spend a lot of time in. I tried removing the 15, and did not like that either. I found the cog I used least was the 11, so I removed that and purchased 13t lockring from Absolute Black out of the UK.

Tools required are: Cassette/Rotor Lockring Removal Tool

...and Sprocket Remover/Chain

 

[Charles.Plager]

Cough cough Schlumpf Mountain Drive. Cough cough

Actually the compact double and 42t get me the same low end I had on my triples.

Maybe one of your triples. My triple is a 50/39/24. That's a pretty nice low end (if I say so myself!).

 

[Abbott Smith]

Nothing to it Abbott. You have a couple of options. Remove one of the smaller cassette cogs, 13-15-17, and place the new 42t first on the wheel spline/hub followed by the other cassette cogs. You also have the option to replace 15 and 17 cog with a 16t. I didn't like the the shifting ratio jumps from 13 15 19, I missed the 17, seems to be a gear I spend a lot of time in. I tried removing the 15, and did not like that either. I found the cog I used least was the 11, so I removed that and purchased 13t lockring from Absolute Black out of the UK.

Tools required are: Cassette/Rotor Lockring Removal Tool

...and Sprocket Remover/Chain

Thanks Rick. The 13t lock out ring was the piece of the puzzle I was missing. My friend is loaning me the necessary tools.

 

[Abbott Smith]

Maybe one of your triples. My triple is a 50/39/24. That's a pretty nice low end (if I say so myself!).

Yep. That's a pretty substantial low end. What's your largest cog?

 

[super slim]

Cough cough Schlumpf Mountain Drive. Cough cough
Cough cough triple cough cough
24t round, 39t Qring, 53t Qring with a FSA Gossamer Expo, with a 10 speed 11 to 34 teeth cassette, gives a 18.5" to 132" gear Range, with 10% to 13% speed changes in the 20 to 30 kph (12.5 to 19 mph) speed range.

 

[Charles.Plager]

Yep. That's a pretty substantial low end. What's your largest cog?

26T.

But it's on a 20" wheel. It's morally equivalent to a 36T on a 700c wheel. You can see my gearing here. (I've got a 48/38/22 matched to a 11-32 on my 26" Sofrider. The gearing is a little bit broader than my Cruzgami Mantis).

 

[Robert Holler]

Abbott,

A triple is not going to work the way you want on your V20 no matter what you do. You have far better (and easier) options to get some low end.

The setup with a double and a super wide converted cassette is the way to go. Sorry all, but triples and the performance Cruzbikes are not a good match no matter how you slice it, and pretty much the same range can be accomplished today on the drive wheel end. Plus its lighter.

 

[Charles.Plager]

Abbott,

A triple is not going to work the way you want on your V20 no matter what you do. You have far better (and easier) options to get some low end.

The setup with a double and a super wide converted cassette is the way to go. Sorry all, but triples and the performance Cruzbikes are not a good match no matter how you slice it, and pretty much the same range can be accomplished today on the drive wheel end. Plus its lighter.

So, I don't own a Vendetta and you should weight this appropriately, but I just don't buy it.

1) If you're concerned about the difference in weight, then don't eat that twinkie. There. Problem solved.

2) If you want both range and closeness of gear steps, it's very hard to beat a triple (without going IGH). If you want extreme range, it's extremely difficult get than on a double (and there is a Silvio V2 that has triple with 74 BCD meaning it can take a 24T granny). The Vendetta chain is (slightly) longer than a standard DF, so should have less problems with a triple than a standard DF (as long as you get the right bottom bracket, of course).

3) While I can imagine that it's easier to balance on my bikes than a Vendetta, I'm still willing to believe I could get one to ride stably at 3 mph. If you think a compact double is enough, then you haven't found the right hill yet.

Abbott has already bought the bigger cassette, so that's clearly the next step for him. But if he still doesn't find satisfaction, then we all know what he should do next.

 

[Abbott Smith]

Abbott,

A triple is not going to work the way you want on your V20 no matter what you do. You have far better (and easier) options to get some low end.

The setup with a double and a super wide converted cassette is the way to go. Sorry all, but triples and the performance Cruzbikes are not a good match no matter how you slice it, and pretty much the same range can be accomplished today on the drive wheel end. Plus its lighter.

Yeah. I came to the same conclusion. Which is why I bit the bullett yesterday and ordered an XT 11-36 and a Wolftooth 42t add on cog. Of course then I remembered that I have 9 speed brifters...

So my plan is to pull the 13t cog and spacer and set up the derailleurs to ignore the 11t cog. This will give me a 15-42t cassette with my 50/34 compact double until I can upgrade my right brifter to a 10 spd. At that point I'll probably opt for the 13t lock ring that Richard suggested and run 13-42t. I mostly do social training rides, so the goal is less about speed and more about efficiency.

 

[Charles.Plager]

Yeah. I came to the same conclusion. Which is why I bit the bullett yesterday and ordered an XT 11-36 and a Wolftooth 42t add on cog. Of course then I remembered that I have 9 speed brifters...

Wait... 9 speed spacing and 10 speed spacing are different. You're not going to get a 10 speed cassette to work even if you only try to access 9 of the cogs.

 

[Abbott Smith]

So, I don't own a Vendetta and you should weight this appropriately, but I just don't buy it.

1) If you're concerned about the difference in weight, then don't eat that twinkie. There. Problem solved.

2) If you want both range and closeness of gear steps, it's very hard to beat a triple (without going IGH). If you want extreme range, it's extremely difficult get than on a double (and there is a Silvio V2 that has triple with 74 BCD meaning it can take a 24T granny). The Vendetta chain is (slightly) longer than a standard DF, so should have less problems with a triple than a standard DF (as long as you get the right bottom bracket, of course).

3) While I can imagine that it's easier to balance on my bikes than a Vendetta, I'm still willing to believe I could get one to ride stably at 3 mph. If you think a compact double is enough, then you haven't found the right hill yet.

Abbott has already bought the bigger cassette, so that's clearly the next step for him. But if he still doesn't find satisfaction, then we all know what he should do next.

Ugly hills I've got in abundance. The nasty piece of work on the south side of my house maxs out at just under 19% grade and has an S curve in the middle of it.

My goal is not to climb walls on my bike. If I need to walk a steep grade, I don't have a problem with that. My goal is to be able to handle the occasional steep segment without popping my heart rate into an unsustainable level. What I've found in my very limited riding experience on the Vendetta is that blowing up on a hill causes the subsequent riding to be very unstable. My ability to maintain my center of gravity while past the threshold is almost impossible because my lungs are heaving and my muscles are all quivering.

It boils down to being able to handle up to 16-18% grades. Right now I'm maxing out between 13-14% with my low end at ~30 gear inches. There are just too many local hills with segments in that 13-18% range. Adding 8 gear inches to my low end will enable me tackle most of them and work on my fitness. The Vendetta/Cruzbike geometry climbs so much better than a RWD recumbent and I can climb these hills on my RWDs with that same low end.

 

[Abbott Smith]

Wait... 9 speed spacing and 10 speed spacing are different. You're not going to get a 10 speed cassette to work even if you only try to access 9 of the cogs.

Aaaaaaaaagrh!

You're right. I had a brain cramp. Well when I get a 10 speed brifter, I'll have the necessary cassette....

 

[Rick Youngblood]

You're right. I had a brain cramp. Well when I get a 10 speed brifter, I'll have the necessary cassette....

To save money, you could purchase just the right-side for now and matching left later.