Let the V20 build begin

[Robert Holler]

A big factor in the "turning

A big factor in the "turning freely" are the bearings themselves - some spin way more freely than others. I have had people with old square taper cranks complain when we install a new BB because they "don't spin as freely as their old cranks" but the old ones only spun like mad because they were worn to nothing.

Feel if they spin smoothly. If there is a feeling of binding anywhere that is what to look for. You can loosen the ring clamps entirely and feel the spin, and then tighten them to double check.

I never torque the ring clamps more than a good "snug" of about 1/4 or so turn after they become tight. There is no need to wrench super tightly down on them and stripping them would be a bad thing.

Robert

 

[KiwiGuy]

Polished alloy

Hey Larry

Were you close enough to the stripping of the fork and chain stay to advise if they both could be finished to a polished alloy finish as per the fork on the V2?

I'm just finalising the build of my V20, and have been strongly influenced by what you're doing. However, I'm thinking of keeping the boom and slider in black powdercoat, and simply addressing the fork and chain stay.

I initially considered taking the chrome powdercoat approach you've used, but if it is possible to strip and polish (then clear coat) both the fork and the chain stay to a polished alloy finish I consider that preferable.

Let me know if you think it possible.

John and Robert, if you could also advise I'd greatly appreciate it.

Kind regards...

 

[Andrew 1973]

Polishing Anodized Alloy

I can chime in with my experience.

Anodized alloy components CAN indeed be polished, but the first part of the process involves removal of the existing anodized surface. There are specialized chemicals for doing such, but oven cleaner (the caustic type that comes in an aerosol can) will usually do the trick.

Once the anodizing has been stripped, you will have a rough, dull, grey alloy part and you'll begin thinking "what have I done?!". You're not even close to being done at this point. Using a selection of emery cloth and automotive sand paper, you will work from a medium-coarse grit to a super-fine grit which feels almost as soft as velvet. Finalize your finish with jeweler's rouge and a set of polishing wheels and you should be able to bring up a mirror-like shine. The shine won't last and you'll forever be chasing smudges and fingerprints unless you use a specialized product like Zoop Seal or if you have the piece clear coated.

I believe that the fork and chainstay on the new V20 is painted. In this case, a bit of aircraft stripper should get you to a reasonably smooth alloy surface which can be polished by the above means, but there is also a chance that these components are coated in a specialized primer which contains zinc and is used in many applications with painted alloys. This primer has a dull green appearance and is not as easily removed as the painted finish.

Personally, I'd leave the front end as-designed. But if you must go with a polished look, you might want to employ an expert to do the finishing. Working with a polishing wheel takes the right equipment and an even greater measure of skill. Go too fast or overload your wheel, and you've just taken a few step backward in progress. It can be maddening when you've almost reached a perfect finish and then things turn black, then dull, and you can't seem to bring back the shine.

 

[Andrew 1973]

More On Polishing Alloy

This link will provide you some additional information. (opens in a new window)

 

[KiwiGuy]

Thanks Andrew

Hey Andrew

Thanks for your comments and the links. Very useful. More food for thought!

Kind regards...

 

[Andrew 1973]

Glad to give my input

Others may have differing opinions, but I can only speak from my experience.

For what it's worth, Larry's new V20 is going to look hot with the silver front end...similar to Rob's from Rose City Recumbent Cycles.

 

[LarryOz]

is is

Blair, I concur with Andrew on the anodized parts.
You could polish those guys, but it would be a TON of work - and greater possible expense.
I decided against it and opted for the powdercoat chrome color. Not as "reflective" as the polished chrome, but acceptable to me at this point.
Let see some build pics from you? Have you posted and I missed them?

 

[LarryOz]

Here's all the components

Here's all the components (except the frame pieces)
Hopefully will start soon today!

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Looking forward to the build.

Looking forward to the build. Also I'm very curious about the QXL rings. What tooth size do you have? I believe I read you may need a spacer to clear the FD on big x big. I also read a positive review for power gain with these over the standard Q rings.

 

[Lief]

nice decal on the wheels.

nice decal on the wheels.
Can't wait to see how you do in Sebring.

Are we going to be able to follow up-to-the-minute progress under hashtag #Relentless ?

 

[ratz]

Yes those wheels. I've got to

Yes those wheels. I've got to step up my game on my wheel decals.

Where are you getting those done?

 

[LarryOz]

work in progress


The first part of this build has gone rather slowly.
We (Gary helping me of course) needed to "mock-up" the estimated boom length (from my V2.0) because the smaller tube of the boom would not fit into the larger piece due to the thickness of the powder coating.
So, had to cute about 8" off the smaller tube, and then completely sand off the 2 top coats of powder coating, and then the 2 base layers. Then it would slide nicely in.
I have to also stop and say here that the new V20 does not allow the top of the fork to "fit" inside of the boom like the older V2's.
To me this is a major step back in the "adjustability" of the V, because to lower the boom to a more horizontal angle, you must cut the top tube of the fork off.
That means that if you "try" the more horizontal angle and don't like it, you can't go back. (This also has some major ramifications for resale, especially for someone who is smaller and has a more horizontal boom angle.) This is because you can't "un-cut" the fork top tube. Once it is cut off it is too late.
Soooo, after much thought, I decided to cut out a rectangular area on the underneath (pretty much matching the V2.0 boom opening), to allow the fork top tube pivot into the tube.
I believe with the thickness of the aluminum boom tubes, there is no chance of there being any strength issue.
This "cut-out" area will also allow me to mount and have access to the di2 charging component, as well as let me route the front break cable easily through the boom tube to the brake.of.on
(If I could get ahold of an extra 2 V2. boom sections I would not have a second thought of using them. First they look way "cooler", and have more adjustability.
(If anyone reading this happens to have either of the "older" V boom sections, please send me a PM!)
(see pics below)
We also drilled the required access holes for the di2 wiring cables, but after hooking everything up except the cables to the brifters, quickly realized that I did not have long enough cables to complete the installation. So, I have ordered a couple more "longer" di2 wires, and also a set sprint shifters, which will probably come next Monday or Tuesday.
...
Final picture shows where we left off - Hopefully work on it some tomorrow

 

[mzweili]

Larry,
I'm afraid to see the

Larry,
I'm afraid to see the huge cut out you did in the boom. The cut out on the V2 boom is strongly reinforced by the plates welded on each side.
The cut out you made weakens the boom so it might not get sufficiently clamped.
This could result in sliding longitudinally or even bending under repeated load.
Personally I would have cut the fork stem, and to reverse it, if necessary, added a stem extension.

 

[BentAero]

It'll be fine. Aluminum is

It'll be fine. Aluminum is far stronger than most people think. The forces applied to the boom are minimal in relation to the strength of the tube. That tube is stout.

The dragster in my avatar photo has an 813 inch aluminum big block engine that makes over 2000 hp on the dyno. It weighs nearly 400 lbs. The front mount that holds it in the chassis is nothing but a common piece of 1/4" thick 6061-T6 aluminum plate attached with two 3/8" bolts. Imagine the torque applied to that plate during launch...

 

[Andrew 1973]

Looking Great, Larry

I think you've got a winner with the colour scheme and the boom modification.

 

[Eric Winn]

That is some major surgery

When reading about the hole, I was following where you were going but my first view of the actual cut-out shocked me at how big it was. I agree with Marc and would have just lopped off the fork stem and ditched the unneeded spacers.

I also get Gary's feeling about the strength but I think that applies mostly to normal operations although I am curious if it affects the clamping. Let us know if your clamp wants to slip. My guess would be during sprints or hard climbing with some heavy mashing...

Where the weakness might come more into play is a serious crash. With that large of a cut-out I would be concerned with the boom collapsing or folding in a way that would be more detrimental to the rider's body instead of helping to protect the rider. I've had 3 fairly significant crashes on my version 2 Vendetta with the pivot cage cutout but with welded skirt and with each of those the configuration of strong boom, handlebars, and stiff front triangle served to protect my body from worse injury. Especially the first time being side swiped and dragged 10-15 feet by a minivan and the second time which was a high speed 35mph crash where I mostly went down on my right side but apparently bounced over to my left side and back to my right again at least once during that crash. That second crash was 17 miles into last year's National 24 Hour Challenge and I continued to do another 146 miles before my right bar end shifter came loose and I stopped after struggling to fix it wasn't getting me anywhere (along with the huge patch of baboon butt from the crash). So the bike as designed is pretty damn tough.

The other thing that struck me is the large size of the pivot cage cutout on the version 2 Vendetta slider is to provide for a range of adjustment for different sized riders. I was expecting a much smaller cutout on your custom fit sized only for you modification . I suspect the greater range of adjustment for rider sizes along with simpler (cheaper) manufacturing costs is the reason for the boom change.

Your cutout looks larger than the version 2 Vendetta pivot cage. Also, you made a rectangle cut instead of an oval so watch those sharp corners for cracking. The other thing to note is the version 2 Vendetta slder starts out as a much thicker walled tube that is turned on a lathe to a smaller diameter tube above and below where the pivot cage cutout is. As Marc mentions, the welded skirt add strength to the cutout but the original boom also has a much thicker wall in the cutout area. Mine is a very smoothly rounded oval cutout measuring approximately 3 1/2 inches by 1 1/4 inches. What are the dimensions of your cutout?

-Eric

 

[Eric Winn]

Version 2 slider is 50.7mm OD

Version 2 slider is 50.7mm OD at the pivot cage section and 47.7mm OD where it has been turned down so the tube section where the pivot cage oval cutout and welded skirt is 3mm thicker than the rest of the slider.

I can't readily get the ID...

-Eric

 

[ratz]

Thicker Boom

At the risk of the dreaded "I haven't seen one" comment.... Those photos of the boom do make the metal appear to be a fair bit thicker than the Silvio 2.0 boom; how close to the Vendetta 2.0 Gary and Larry would have to fill use in. Having had engineering chats with Gary; I am guessing a lot of pre-thinking went into that cut.

What I can tell you is that I have cut slots (much smaller ones) into the booms on both of our Silvio 2.0. The slots specifically avoid the clamp area because of the concern Mark raised. A did test clamping the slotted area; and on the Silvio 2.0 the clamp will not securely hold the boom that way, the clamp bottoms out just a tad too soon; putting to strips of electric tape in between restores the clamping but that not really a viable fix. Because of that test, I certainly would not duplicate that size of a cut on the older/smaller booms. I only point that out since I posted previous photos of slotted older booms.

 

[BentAero]

Maybe this wasn't such a good

Maybe this wasn't such a good idea.

Got a bad feeling you guys may be right, in that the band-clamp likely won't tighten down sufficiently on the boom tube. I think it's lost too much surface area under the band-clamp.

I think I'll try making a disc (like a flat washer) that is the same OD as the ID of the tube, and install it inside the boom tube by way of the hole. Sort of a press-fit for the band-clamp to tighten up to.

Plan B is to weld a 'bridge' or even weld the cut-out piece back in.

Plan C, replace the boom tube.

Aren't 'kits' fun?

 

[Andrew 1973]

Could you "box" the slot in

Could you "box" the slot in the boom tube, just like one would do when boxing an automobile's frame? Of course in welding alloy, would the boom have to be heat treated afterwards?

It sounds also like a disk of alloy inserted into to the clamping area of the tube ought to ensure that you can sufficiently tighten the clamp. That's the easiest route as it seems to me.