Personal record on a 100K

Today I rode a 100K (actually it was about 65 miles) with a 19.3mph average! That's a record for me. I did it on the Vendetta 2.0. It was a fairly flat ride, but there were some hills.

http://ridewithgps.com/trips/1606299



 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
I'm gonna start calling you

I'm gonna start calling you Speed Racer, John...

Great job, now I gotta hurry up and get the V back together and play catch up... My best so far is 70 miles at 17.5 mph average - you're killing me man!
tongue_smile.gif


-Eric
 

Jim Gerwing

Well-Known Member
Nice ride, John

I notice that your last leg(where you turn north) is into the wind and getting warm AND the humidity is dropping. Those factors make it hurt. 'Make it hurt so good.' Nice to be out speeding around on a V. Well done.
JG
 
Thanks Eric, but I think Jim

Thanks Eric, but I think Jim is the Speed Racer among us! It's hillier where you live, Eric, so you get points for that. :)

Jim, you are right on! Going north at the end was rough! I was pushing hard trying to keep my speed up but you couldn't tell from looking at the RWGPS data. I could have had a 20 mph average if the ride ended 10 miles sooner! I'm not complaining though. I had a fun time out there.
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
BTW, I was just starting to

BTW, I was just starting to use a power meter and was experimenting using it to monitor my effort to try and maintain a higher overall average speed by kind of "smoothing" my overall effort. E.g. ease on flats and downhills and hold better power on uphills.

Basically instead of blasting down some hills at 30+ and maybe having a little less energy for the next uphill and slowing more, I was holding myself around 25 mph and then experimenting with going faster uphill with the smallest increase in watts.

I'm anxious to get back to this as even with just 3 rides I could see a difference.

-Eric

 
Eric, good plan.  Of course,

Eric, good plan. Of course, their is an optimal way to distribute your power output. That optimal way definitely skews towards higher output on the ascents, baseline on the flats, and a bit easy on the descents. How much you should skew depends on the length of ride, total climbing and climbing intensity, etc. That's the fun of cycling right there. Exploring the effects of our efforts from our ever-changing bodies through our ever-changing bikes in our ever-changing environment is what makes cycling so interesting!

BTW, those cycling metrics are amazing! John, what device do you use?
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
John and I are both big fans

John and I are both big fans and users of the Cyclemeter app for iPhone.

Wonderful app and the developers are very responsive to their customers. I try and help beta test some stuff for them - Wahoo RFLKT, Wahoo KICKR, and Stages Power Meter interaction with Cyclemeter. I have to admit I haven't done much to help they generally do a really good job.

Here was one of my few rides with the Stages power meter: http://ridewithgps.com/trips/1484929

And just before the N24HC where I did 70 miles averaging 17.5 mph: http://ridewithgps.com/trips/1376956 but now I gotta work to catch up to John and Jim
tongue_smile.gif


-Eric
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
Cyclemeter works with all of

Cyclemeter works with all of the Bluetooth Smart devices without having to use the ANT+ dongle.

I have all of these and they all connect via smart bt (low power) to my iPhone 5 and work with Cyclemeter:
  • Wahoo Blue HR
  • Wahoo Blue SC
  • Wahoo KICKR
  • ?Wahoo RFLKT
  • Stages Power Meter (Supports both Bluetooth Smart and ANT+)
Note the Stages pm also includes a cadence function. I use it instead of the Wahoo SC (Speed and Cadence) sensor. I still use the "Speed" part with the wheel magnet but have Cyclemeter configured to pull cadence from the Stages.

-Eric
 
Yup, Cyclemeter on iPhone.  

Yup, Cyclemeter on iPhone. Best $5 I ever spent. After a ride, it's just a few clicks on the phone to send it to Ride with GPS. I don't have any power meter or cadence sensor, but if I did, Cyclemeter could connect to them as long as they use ANT+ or Bluetooth Smart.

 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
back to Eric's leveling off comment...

Interesting that you are talking about leveling your power out to make better climbing. I just got back from the Midwest recumbent Rally and I had an interesting realization during the group rides. Almost no one there on trike or bike seemed to know how to climb hills correctly. In the end I wound up teaching the guys I was riding with some basics and suddenly they where going up hill a lot easier, especially on the rollers. I am guessing the basic idea translates to a front wheel drive too. I am not claiming special knowledge just some things I was taught years ago to out maneuver stronger riders with better bikes....

So let me ask the leading question before explaining.

When you climb a hill; do you down shift in small increments progressively as it gets too hard to push the pedals?
 

Jeremy S

Dude
When you climb a hill; do you

When you climb a hill; do you down shift in small increments progressively as it gets too hard to push the pedals?

Yes I do (well I don't really wait until it's "too hard", if I did I'd fall off the bike). Why do I have the feeling that's going to be incorrect...
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
do you down shift in small

do you down shift in small increments progressively as it gets too hard to push the pedals?

Well, yes and no.

I down shift the RD a bit then I shift the FD and then finish down shifting the RD but I try to downshift before any significant effort builds to avoid bogging down on the shift and to keep cadence up as I shift.

I've also been experimenting with a mix of spinning and mashing and timing of shifts in conjunction with same to compare results to see how real numbers compare to what it feels like I'm doing.

-Eric
 

Jim Gerwing

Well-Known Member
Some people enjoy hills

I've heard the buzzword, 'attack' hills.
my personal preference is the flats(good thing I'm a prairie dweller).
As for hill technique, I spin up hills. 90 or more is my usual cadence, if I fall below that I down shift.
when cresting a hill, as soon as my cadence increases, I shift up and start working toward a target speed (something better than my predicted average).
But I'm open to better strategies. . .
JG
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Ok time to test some climbing...

Ok that is exactly what I observed at the Rally. So I am on a bit of rant to help fix that. Even if you are just leisure riding, bad hill technique really make the ride less fun than it could be because it wastes so much energy.

What I observed was that everyone was using climbing techniques that work on a stiff, light bike that allows you to stand. I was taught years ago in a pro trainer's class how to climb while sitting, riding a lesser bike and still pass those that could stand and power a light expensive bike. Now I am curious if this will translate to FWD.

So here is the deal.... Even on a DF standing and power climbing is not the most efficient. It is the most aggressive, and if you want to win one hill at the end of the race it works, but if you want to ride with 30% less effort and stay at the front over many many hills then you have to do it different.

Climbing is about using the right muscles at the right time and using them only as much as you need to so that you most efficiently accomplish your goal. The following won't help you if you come around a corner at 8 mph and encounter a 20% hill. But if you can see the hill coming this make all the difference in the world especially for us normal people riding normal reasonable hills. You will be over the top with less effort and you be saving the energy for the rest of the ride

1) Approach the hill with speed near the top of your no-stress tailwind threshold. Aka a Big gear pushed at 60-70 RPM with little effort, not power mashing. Think cruising on a slight down hill incline while drinking water. For me that is about 17-20mph on a Trike; and 20-24mph on a DF. If you can coast up to these speeds, stop pedaling for even better affect. Rest drink water etc, plan the attack.

2) Before you reach the base of the hill, down shift and raise you cadence to the high-upper end of smooth. (This improves with practice). For me this is 130-160rpm (155mm cranks) on a Bent and 100-130 on a DF (165mm cranks). Do not go to the point that you rock or pogo. Hold your approach speed level in-spite of the raised cadence. Do not slow down, do not accelerate. REST... Time it so you are at the top cadence right when you start to climb for best effect.

While you do this spinning you are resting your power stroke muscles; and you remove any change of going into oxygen debt, while at the same time you will increase your breathing and oxygenate your muscles. These are all good things. (no attempt to be scientifically accurate here).

3) As you climb you will start to loose speed; hold your power input; since most do not have a power meter do this by letting your cadence drop. Do not mash; keep you input pressure constant you will feel it in the pedals. This is a very natural feeling. It's that wow I am going up hill fast for little effort feeling we all have had. The goal is to accomplish what down shifting did by simply reducing your pedaling speed/force/momentum. This levels out your energy input; with a goal to have it flat during the beginning of the climb. Doing this technique results in a more efficient smooth power curve versus down shifting. This approach works better than downshifting because most people stay in each gear too long before down shifting; most wait until their power stroke fatigues causing the muscle to go anerobic, then they make it worst by down shift too far causing further inefficiencies. It far easier to feather your cadence slower and slower.

4) When you drop to 70-80 rpm level out at that point, this is the power range for most rec riders; if you are fit 80-90 if learning 70-80; but those are just guides. Do this 3 or 4 times and you will find your spot, and it will then improve as you practice.

Now you have reach your decision point.

5) If you carried enough speed into the hill and it is not a monster you will be nearing the top and rolling around 16-17 mph maybe faster. If you have timed it right you are going to be 12-20 pedal pushes from the crest. If that is true, you now up shift to a harder gear and finally mash the pedals, you will have the strength and the oxygen reserve now to do it; and you should be able to accelerate.

How far you up-shift depends on your strength, beginners 1 or 2 gears at most. With practice you will be able to do more depending on the hill. (If you do not think you can crest in 20 pushes then you have to level out and hold your pace until you are near to the crest and you might have to downshift 1 gear. You still will be way ahead of the game at this point; you just will not get the big cool effect)

6) 12-20 hard pushes (6-10 per foot) while up shifting as you will crest the hill with acceleration and sling shot down the other side or off onto the flat.

7) If this is a roller; immediately coast and let the bike climb up to 20+ on it is own; while you rest your legs for the next climb.


These are just guidelines for speed; they will vary depending on the size of the hills. I have done hills that are really long and others with run up dives that where 30+ and only 4 hard pushes to accelerate over the top. Every hill is different if it is 20% grade I am just a likely to struggle to hold 10-11mph on it.

If you boil this down to the simplest points you get this:

1) Approach your hill at 15-30 mph with the least effort possible.
2) Get in a Easy gear much sooner than you think you should
3) Get you legs up to a high cadence while you can do that for almost free effort
4) Feather you cadence not your gear
5) Attach the top of the hill with harder gears and power strokes
6) Accelerate over the crest rather than just making it to the top to rest

I suspect this will work really nice on a cruz platform; but I cannot test that theory until spring; and I do not know if those high cadence work on a FWD/MBB so I will be curious if this works for anyone in the mean time.

Hopefully this technique is worth more than you just paid for it :)

**edited for some grammar bombs.
 

1happyreader

zen/child method
slower or newer ect . pick wise. drop in multiples.

It's the law of minimums for us newbies, out of shape , or just plain slower folks.
hills are gonna eat up ANY wasted momentum of your wheels or pedals and we don't have much of a margin or cushion to spare.

front derailleurs are NOT made to downshift under load. pick the chainring for your attack at the bottom of the hill.

Drop two gears at a time, moving to a lower gear cog on the drive wheel is like coasting and eats momentum , one gear may not be enough to keep your cadence in a useful power range at slower speeds.

be smart, use everything not just your muscles.

 
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