Selling Silvio

[mickjordan]

It is with considerable disappointment that I have decided to sell my Silvio 1.5. There are a lot of cool aspects to the Silvio, not least its looks, but I have concluded that I am not one of those people who will ever become comfortable with the FWD/MBB design. I've given it a good shot over the past few months and especially the past six weeks but I have reached a plateau of capability with the bike and I can't see what would happen over the next several months to change my general discomfort with the FWD design. If I were younger I might persevere but, coming up to 61, I want to get as much riding in as I can. The rides I do in the San Francisco area involve a lot of climbing and have some of the most technical descents in the US, so I need to be absolutely confident on the bike at speed.

I want to thank everybody involved with Cruzbike for their help, particularly Jim and Maria and John T, and all the forum members who have responded to my someims dumb questions.

I'll be posting the bike for sale shortly. If anyone is interested, send me a message. The bike has an Ultregra triple installed, but I'm selling without wheels as I used my existing wheelsets. I'm 5'10" and have an X-seam of 38".

 

[Andrew 1973]

Sorry to hear that

Hey Mick,

Sorry to hear that the Silvio is not the bike you are looking for, but as you know, there is no shortage of enthusiastic Cruzbike fans who will happily take yours off your hands. Especially since it is ready to roll with the addition of a set of wheels and a new cassette!

It's interesesting that you mention the climbing and descending being a factor in your decision; the main reason I want a Silvio is to tackle a bit of a climb we have in these parts known as Mount Mitchell. Also, I live not too terribly far from the Parkers and I would love to join them for a ride someday and I know I will need a bike like the Silvio just to hang onto a wheel (if I can even do that!)

Best of luck to you and many happy miles ahead.

Take care,

Andrew

 

[TJ671]

Silvio

What are you asking for the Sivio?

 

[marshall2389]

I am interested in more

I am interested in more details. Price? Condition? Pictures? What all is included?

I live in Davis, CA. Not too far from SF.

Elliot

 

[psychling]

"It's interesting that you

"It's interesting that you mention the climbing and descending being a factor in your decision; the main reason I want a Silvio is to tackle a bit of a climb we have in these parts known as Mount Mitchell. Also, I live not too terribly far from the Parkers and I would love to join them for a ride someday and I know I will need a bike like the Silvio just to hang onto a wheel (if I can even do that!)"

Andrew ...

I've done the Assault on Mt. Mitchell about 8 times and know the route and climb quite well. If I were to ascend Mt. Mitchell there would be no question that the Vendetta would be the bike I'd use. Any version, 1 through 3, would do.

I've used the Silvio out here on shorter miles but equal climbing feet ... with too challenging gearing (50/39 x 11/34) ... and that works well, too. But the V is much lighter and the angle of recline (for me, at least) allowed me more power on the ascents.

 

[Andrew 1973]

Psychling...why the Vendetta for Climbing?

I'm curious as to why you would choose the Vendetta over the Silvio for such a ride. The first 70 miles of the Assault on Mt. Mitchell would be a perfect course for the making use of the aerodynamic advantage of the Vendetta, but what about when the real climb begins?

My only experience in hill climbing on a recumbent with that much seat recline was back in my hometown of Pittsburgh on a heavily modified Vision R-40 with dual 650C wheels. I found that the laid back position made climbing a challenge and became manageable only after I brought the seat to a more-upright position, similar to that of the Silvio. Also, I realise the advantage of the FWD+MBB design, no one has to sell me on the idea; I have ridden both the Silvio and Sofrider and am convinced.

With that in mind, I'd like to know your thoughts. Purchasing a Vendetta is not in my immediate future, but as a long-term goal, it just might be.

Thanks!

 

[Andrew 1973]

Psychling...one more note.

"I've used the Silvio out here on shorter miles but equal climbing feet ... with too challenging gearing (50/39 x 11/34) ... and that works well, too."

You must have quads of iron. How do you feel your climbing speed is compared to a comparably-equipped road bike/torture device?

 

[psychling]

Climbing and the Vendetta

I've had no choice but to build climbing legs out here. And it has taken a long time. Since January I've climbed 494,000 feet in less that 6,400 miles. Even a monkey can tap out the perfect novel on a typewriter given an infinity of time

What I'm saying is that it takes practice (and weight loss - power to weight ratio) to climb. Being steeply reclined requires your vestibular system to adjust, to build muscle memory, to learn how to start from a dead stop on an 8% incline, how to manage shifting, how to assess the climb ahead and pace your effort so that you don't `burn all your matches too early.'

In short races on spikey terrain (West Virginia, out here, elsewhere) I simply lack the talent and upper body strength (at this point) to manage fast descents on steep, twisting, switchback (120-180 degree turns) descents. That's probably a good thing in the long run because I think that high-risk descents, in races, present more risk than they're worth. Besides, in races really good DF bike descenders can match really good recumbent descenders. The races aren't won on the descents. They're one on the flats and the climbs.

If I can do it anybody can.

 

[psychling]

Re: road bike / torture device.

Comparability of climbing on road bike?

I don't know. But I pass a lot more of the uphill these days than I used to. I'm stronger and weigh a lot less. I think that is going in the right direction.

I still think, though, that these powerful, short, skinny, microsized upright / DF cyclists have an advantage. That gravity thing!

 

[Charles.Plager]

Hi Mick,
I'm sorry to see you

Hi Mick,

I'm sorry to see you go. Regardless of what you ride, ride safe.

Cheers,
Charles

 

[mickjordan]

Not gone yet

So I've been riding the SIlvio on the trainer a couple of times a week the past three weeks while I waited for all those people wanting to buy it to bang on my door. I'm still waiting...

Anyway, I was doing a lot of single leg work as I wanted to develop my recumbent leg strength and pedalling technique for each leg. On Sunday, with the forecast for a lot of rain in the future, I decided to take the Silvio out for a spin, as I was getting a bit of cabin fever on the trainer, and I don't have an alternate bike yet. I'd also switched the pedals back to SPDs. It was interesting to discover that I had improved just by being on the trainer. I don't really have a good explanation for this except that the single leg work may have improved my stroke in such a way that my balance is just plain better. Overall, I felt a lot more confident, and was able to do things I could not do before. For example, I was able to practice single leg pedalling while moving without losing balance.

So I have to admit that, at least for the majority of riding terrain, it seems like it just takes a long time to rewire the brain for the FWD/MBB setup. The silver bullet I was searching for doesn't exist, and the plateau I thought I was on, was in fact a gently inclining slope that I was perhaps too impatient to climb.

I'll still sell it if I can get a decent price, as I can't justify having such an expensive bike just for occasional use, but in the meantime I'll keep climbing the inclined plateau.

 

[Jim Parker]

Hi Mick,
Glad you are finally

Hi Mick,
Glad you are finally getting some more confidence, balance, and skill on the bike. Differenct people have different learning styles, and I think doing some specific skill-building exercises can be very helpful. 1-legged pedaling, from a start, or while moving down the road is a good one.

Just out of curiosity, I measured my power with one foot clipped-in and the other just hanging down. I could hold about 125 Watts with each individual leg for several minutes.

Jim

 

[mickjordan]

1-legged pedalling

I've started doing the 1-legged pedalling on a loop in my neighborhood in addition to the trainer. I do about a minute on and a minute off, five times each leg. It's very good balance training as well as leg training.

Mick

 

[Charles.Plager]

One comment that may be

One comment that may be obvious to others, but just in case...

The biggest problem, I believe, Mick has is feeling safe when defending steep curvy roads (I've got steep and I've got curvy, but not a lot of both). This is not something that all of us face and I think part of the reason that Mick is having a harder time is he's riding on more difficult terrain.

Keep it up, Mick!

 

[mickjordan]

Re One comment

Charles,

That is mostly correct, although at this point I have not ventured onto the seriously steep and curvy here. I'm getting more comfortable at speed and in turns, but not yet ready for the technical climbs around here. My maximum speed without fear is increasing, yesterday I hit 32 on a straight descent. I also was able to sit forward on some climbs without losing balance.

My other concern remains the stress I experience in my arms an upper body that comes from controlling the bike steering. Presumably at some point my feet will really be able to steer the bike and I'll be able to completely relax my upper body, but not currently. I don't notice the effect in a conscious way, only by the fact that I get stressed after a couple of hours. I try to relax but inevitably I am making continuous steering corrections with my arms and over time this gets stressful. Much like I find our tandem to be about 30% more stressful on the upper body than a single DF bike, so 100K feels like a century. One thing about the Silvio design that doesn't help is that my arms are raised from the horizontal to reach the bars, unlike my Bacchetta where they are horizontal.

 

[BobD]

Mick,
Good to hear about your

Mick,
Good to hear about your Silvio discoveries, and your inceased comfort on the bike. I read your posts and "see myself".....in future weeks/months.

I am curious as to your description of the handlebar setup for your two bikes. If possible, could you post two pics.....one for each bike which shows what the "horizontal" differences that you have described?

I have found the Silvo to be especially "ergo" for me. I have shoulder issues as well.....and have been rather comfortable with the Silvio bar setup. I am curious as to whether our handlebar setups differ significantly? I believe we both use the WTB bar.

In any event.....great to still see you around and hear about your adventures.
As Charles noted.....sounds like you have some wicked riding conditions to navigate.

 

[Charles.Plager]

Hi Mick,
I second Bob's

Hi Mick,

I second Bob's request for pictures. I'm wondering if a change of bars could make the Silvio more comfortable for you.

Riding with no hands isn't a terribly useful skill in itself, but learning to do so can be very useful in learning how to ride minimizing the input of the arms.

In a safe place, when riding, start by using only the left hand for a while, and then the right. Eventually, when you've mastered that, remove both hand, but keep them both right above the handle bars.

Cheers,
Charles

 

[mickjordan]

Re I second Bob's

I'll get some pictures tomorrow.

I can do one handed riding now without too much problem. However, I doubt I could yet remove the water bottle from under the seat, without inducing serious wobble. And it's a big step to no hands as I can tell that the one hand is doing quite a lot to stabilize the bike, even if almost unconsciously.

Wicked climbs indeed. I believe that the SF Bay Area has some of the most technical descents around.

 

[Charles.Plager]

I forgot an important step (I

I forgot an important step (I really wish one could edit posts... Oh well... )

Instead of taking the second hand completely off, try holding the handlebars with just a couple fingers (with the other hand near by).

I can ride for a bit no handed (I've done 1/10 mile and maybe more), but I do have to be quite careful what I do with my hands. I now generally put them in my lap, or if I'm being a smart@$$, I'll put them behind my head. But my balance is quite sensitive to them off the bar.

 

[mickjordan]

Arm angle photos

Below are photos of my arm angle on the Silvio and the Bacchetta. Note that adjusting the Bacchetta height s easy as it is on an adjustable riser. Not so easy on the Silvio. Can't move the Silvio bars further away as they hit my knees.

i