Silvio seat

[Tolderol]

I'm sure I've seen discussion of this here before but can't find a specific thread; my apologies for any duplication.

The question: am I the only one who laments the deeply reclined seat on the last couple of versions of the Silvio? I don't understand it. A great road bike has been turned into something else, very similar to the Vendetta.

If some people want this kind of recline, how about an adjustable seat? If Meta-Bikes can do it, surely Cruz can. On a certain level it's just providing a handy option for the customer's $4K, whatever position you decide to put the seat in.

I like to sit up and watch the road and the ride. Can I be the only one? And looking at the pics of the new versions, I can't believe this seat is well designed ergonomically, to tell you the truth. It looks like you lay flat but have to tilt your neck forward. Ouch.

I was all set to buy a Silvio a couple of years ago, they were out of stock, seemed odd, but it turned out the new model, the 2.0 I guess, was just about to be introduced. Dang. I've held off buying one since then. But I really want to get off my 10-year-old Rans V2 (great for what it is; just rode home with a 40 mph wind at my back: talk about stability AND speed). I guess I'm going to go for a Meta-Bike. Surely there are others out there like me? What is Cruz thinking?

 

[castlerobber]

The question: am I the only one who laments the deeply reclined seat on the last couple of versions of the Silvio? I don't understand it. A great road bike has been turned into something else, very similar to the Vendetta.

It isn't just you.

I'll take the word of those who have the extremely reclined bikes that the seats are indeed comfortable and well designed; but I have no plans to do the kinds of riding that warrant such a laid-back angle. I was fortunate to find someone who was willing to sell me his Silvio 1.5, with its 45-degree seat angle, because he does want a more reclined seat.

At the moment, it appears that Cruzbike is shifting entirely to high-end bikes with seat angles less than 30 degrees, focusing on the racers and serious endurance riders. The Sofrider is no more; the Quest 451 is gone, though custom 406 and 451 setups can be arranged; and who knows how much longer the Quest will be around in any form? The TTrike project is pretty cool, but it isn't a replacement for a more upright seat. Had it not been for the Q451, with its small wheels, adjustable seat angle, and lower price, I wouldn't have become a Cruzbiker.

How about it, Cruzbike insiders? If someone who's "in the know" could at least assure us that something is coming down the pike for our segment of the market, even if they can't reveal exactly what it is yet, it would sure help.

 

[KiwiGuy]

For a small company like Cruzbike, with limited resources, the logical approach is to minimize their costs by producing variants on one platform only. By way of example, that's how Southwest Airlines made decent profits while other airlines were losing their shirts. So dropping Sofrider and Quest is a smart commercial decision imho.

That said, I am strongly of the view that Cruzbike would serve it's customers best by having three versions of the hydro-form frame model, predominantly distinguished by the seat angle. Vendetta at 19 degrees, Silvio at 27 degrees, and Falcon at 35 degrees. (BTW - Falcon is my pet name for the yet to materialize third model. I have no inside knowledge). Hopefully they are working towards this outcome.

Kind regards...

 

[Happyrider]

I bought my Vendetta 20 from Phil Mousely who had fabricated an ingenious 2-position adjustable seat back (that could be adjusted on the fly). It had two positions: 20 and 40 degrees (actually the 20 degree recline was slightly higher, perhaps 21 or 22 degrees, just enough to lift my head 3-4 inches above the headrest). The 40 degree incline was great for learning to ride the MBB (and upright enough that the headrest wasn't required) but it gave me recumbent butt and put me closer to the handlebars than I like (my arms were more bent than I like, sort of like the praying mantis position I had on our Rans Screamer, but not as pronounced). And I couldn't move the handlebars forward anymore because of my knees. The on-the-fly adjustment proved problematic because you then have to adjust the mirrors. I have now removed the adjustable seat back and the headrest fits my head with a little added padding at the top. It has also opened up the cockpit quite a bit so that I don't feel like a sardine in a box. And laying back with my head cocked forward (and supported on the headrest) is quite comfortable for me. When I couldn't use the headrest with the adjustable seat back in the slightly steeper (20+ degrees) fully reclined position, it killed my neck. My sense is that the geometry of the Vendetta 20 doesn't work well with a significantly more upright seat. The same is probably true for the new Silvio. If Cruzbike makes a Falcon, it should have geometry that works for the steeper seat recline. As for comfort I find the V20 seat quite comfortable in the laid back position (I have the thicker comfort Ventisit seat pad) and I can look around from the laid back position just fine. Of course that's because I'm not riding as fast as Larry, who undoubtedly goes by too fast to see anything on his periphery!

 

[ratz]

As for comfort I find the V20 seat quite comfortable in the laid back position (I have the thicker comfort Ventisit seat pad)

Interestingly I've found the thinner standard Ventisit pad to be more comfortable than the thick one. The thin one has molded itself to the shape of my body; the thick one has not and remains less comfortable. Didn't really see that one coming. Thin is on Silvio, thick is on Vendetta.

 

[Happyrider]

Interestingly I've found the thinner standard Ventisit pad to be more comfortable than the thick one. The thin one has mold it self to the shape of my body; the thick one has not and remains less comfortable. Didn't really see that one coming. Thin is on Silvio, thick is on Vendetta.

I've never tried the thin Ventisit. I had the thick one on my Bacchetta Aero, so I ordered the thick one for the Vendetta. I do notice that I have a hard time knowing if I'm centered on the Vendetta seat. Maybe because of the thick Ventisit, which hasn't molded to the shape of my body?

 

[Tolderol]

I think I'd rather have "recumbent bottom" than chronic muscle pain in my neck or, eventually, arthritis, by the looks of the Silvio 3.0 seat. I think it's a bad design and potentially harmful, to tell you the truth. It's a shame. The Silvio 1 - 1.5 was a harmonious road bike. I don't know what this is, really.

 

[joy]

I am very comfortable on my Silvio 3.0. I bought a Bacchetta foam pad and cut it to shape. Admittedly, I am not up to long distances yet, like some folks, but I am very happy with the foam.

 

[Jeremy S]

I must be the only person happy with the stock Silvio 2.0 seat and pads (basically the same as the S30 seat). I did my first 100 mile ride last Fall (over 7 hours in the seat, pretty much continuous) and had no pain anywhere. When I got home I was just tired from pedaling.

 

[battleaxe0]

So far I'm good with it. Let you know how it goes after this weekend

 

[mzweili]

I must be the only person happy with the stock Silvio 2.0 seat and pads

Me too, I don't have a problem with the stock seat and neck rest. This spring I added a 100 mm extention and a Crononero TT Bar, and I am very comfortable with this setup.

 

[ratz]

I think I'd rather have "recumbent bottom" than chronic muscle pain in my neck or, eventually, arthritis, by the looks of the Silvio 3.0 seat. I think it's a bad design and potentially harmful, to tell you the truth. It's a shame. The Silvio 1 - 1.5 was a harmonious road bike. I don't know what this is, really.

I'm torn here...

Dude what heck you've been registered on the forums since 2013 and those are your first two posts why so quiet?

I want to answer some of your question because I can see the attempt to solicit opinions on something that's gotten you frustrated. But I must say the approach you took is muddled; especially in this community.

So why spit on the ground:

I think it's a bad design and potentially harmful, to tell you the truth.

and this:

I can't believe this seat is well designed ergonomically, to tell you the truth

To tell you the truth, I'm at a loss for what you are trying to accomplish with your line of questioning. Perhaps you are really just that frustrated That bit of typing runs the risk of leading us to believe that you have made your conclusion already and writing you off; possibly far too soon. You have been here since 2013 after all. So lets' see if we can bring you back from the brink of frustration.

First, have you been able to ride one of the bikes yet or are they simply out of reach from your area? Perhaps we can find someone in your area. There are a lot of bike around.

If I translate the frustration I hear the question. "How long can you comfortably ride on the seat" I'll answer that there are many members here frequently log 200+ miles a week; and I think you find of the active posters we've only had one leave for comfort issues and that was a hand-arm nerve issue the made the MBB too much to handle.

These days when I ride the Silvio I feel like I'm sitting bolt upright. Day 1 not so much; it did feel super super reclined. That has long since passed. I think you'll find very few that ride the S30 find it too reclined after the initial adjustment period.

Now as to the the seat options. There are plenty of great discussions here in the forums about custom seat options. They do work for most people but not everyone as this thread shows; but there options for the edge cases:

Rick's Volae option give the bike the same seat as a metabike, I'm guessing Rick hasn't chimed in yet for fear of flaming; but he'll tell you his Custom Vendetta and Silvio is way way better for his body than the metabike was. He's had both and a Rans; and the body pains to comment. (There's you cue rick)

There have been several adjustable options created by the users, and not to be forgotten the Turbo quest is no harder to build from a frame kit than a Silvio is; and I bet my dollars to your dont's that Robert would custom build a turbo Quest after about one phone call and it would be very affordable.

End of the day, CB is a small company; they make the product that sells the most and allows them to continue to grow, it's Bike-Business. hmmmm Show-Business is funnier.... So yes the Softrider is gone and we seem to be down to the Quest 26" for upright options, but we don't know what's coming down the chute; there are two designers in the company and Roberts' been teasing us for over a month with subtle hints..... I like KiwiGuy's thinking, but don't have any idea where they are going next.

Now if the S30 and V30 aren't right of you; the ForSale section would be a great place to post for a S1.5 they do come up for sale regularly as people upgrade. You could get a sweet ride for cheap and that would buy you time to see what coming up next from CB.

Before I run off I do have to address something from this post. As someone with osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis I'm educated enough on the subject to call "balderdash" on the chances that the seat is going to cause those conditions. Seats don't cause these diseases, because they are diseases. If you have the conditions you know the requirements to manage them as I have since the age of 20 years old. So far a 6 hour car ride aggravates my conditions far more than 5 hours on the Silvio or Vendetta. I've had zero issues from it. Perhaps though I'm still a bit too young to feel the worst effects; but so far so good; and I pay very regular attention to the affects. I admit that line of reason got me a bit hot under the collar hopefully I've toned this reply down enough for civility; if not my apologies, it's a sensitive subject and the amount of bad info about the disease is rampant.

 

[Tolderol]

Wow. "To tell you the truth" I didn't even read this long tirade in its entirety. Someone's complaining about MY attitude? You should hear yourself.

I don't think it's at all relevant, and certainly none of your business, how long I've been registered on the forum and how often I contribute. Really!

But now that you've raised it, the answer is quite simple. I've been monitoring the site and the forum looking for news of a return to the old design so I can buy it. And I guess I posted now out of the frustration of finally giving up and looking elsewhere. The Meta-Bike looks mighty-fine. If all that is OK with you. Jeez.

 

[ratz]

Wow. "To tell you the truth" I didn't even read this long tirade in its entirety. Someone's complaining about MY attitude? You should hear yourself.

I did hear myself because I took the time read what you wrote and what I wrote. I questioned your goal; and I answered your question. If you read what I wrote it's not a tirade, it just questioned your motives in the process of trying to answer the frustrated questions.

But now that you've raised it, the answer is quite simple. I've been monitoring the site and the forum looking for news of a return to the old design so I can buy it. And I guess I posted now out of the frustration of finally giving up and looking elsewhere. The Meta-Bike looks mighty-fine. If all that is OK with you. Jeez.

It's fine with me. It seemed obvious you came here to tell us you'd given up and were going elsewhere, thank you for clearing that up. To bad, it's a good bike, but so is the Meta-Bike it was a 50/50 toss up when I got mine, Meta-Bike almost won on it's shear versatility. It is great bike too; and I hope it's all you want it to be. Seriously I do, we are the riding minority after all.

 

[telephd]

Tolderol, check your PMs.

 

[super slim]

Tolderol,
There has been MANY Silvio V1.0 and V1.5 for sale in the three years you have been on the site, and a lot cheaper than a Metabike!

I also think that the Silvio V1.0 ( I have owned one for 7 years and ridden 10,000+ km on it) or a V1.5 are a better bike than the Metabike, even though I have not ridden one.
When looking for the price of a Metabike I found a Bentrideronline thread about the setup. http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=99173
The talk about 3 mm of flex with the seat in the rear position by Paulw, OR problems with weight balance, and balance for a 6"1' rider with his head behind the rear wheel, OR the hamster style tiller bar handlebar, do not give me much confidence in the bike.

I think other Cruzbike riders have owned Metabikes, and ALL say the Cruzbike is a better climber, and better speed for the same power.
If you have been reading the forum for 3 years, you should have seen this!

No one seat is suitable for all back shapes AND lengths, and all inclination angles, that's what localized Ventisit style padding is for!

 

[Tolderol]

Visited the Bent Rider classifieds to see if there were any used Silvio 1.5 (or Meta-Bikes . . .). The most recent Silvio listed, from last fall (now sold), was a 2.0. Interesting to see what the seller and then another member of the forum said about the bike, both good and bad:

Alas, my beloved Silvio has to be sold, as my shoulders and neck are responding really poorly to the geometry of the bike.
It's the best bike I've ever owned, just under 1000 miles so far.

I am sorry it did not work out for you...I had the same issue. The BEST bike I have ever owned.

(http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=108577&highlight=silvio)

Fantastic bike, the geometry didn't work. These guys seem to think it's their fault. You'd think Cruzbike would be concerned about people spending upwards of $5K and having to sell almost immediately because of chronic pain problems.

And people on this forum telling me it's my imagination, or to use localized padding! The seat angle is out of whack in a big way, and more specifically and problematically your neck is cranked forward. It's like they got the geometry they wanted for speed and then said "but the rider is looking at the sky", so they just crank your neck forward and voila, no more problem.

 

[Tolderol]

It just struck me. People, or many or most people, who ride a recumbent do so for comfort and/or because of chronic pain problems associated with or aggravated by diamond frames. How many brands of recumbent have you heard being sold like-new because they're causing chronic pain problems? And I say this as someone who admires this product and company and would like to own one of its bikes - just one that is not designed to cause discomfort.

 

[KiwiGuy]

Hmmm. Tolderol, you're discussing two variables (the bike and the seat angle) and then complaining about one (the bike) when your issue is the other (the seat angle).

From what you are saying you both prefer, and are much more comfortable on, a very upright seat. Great, at least you know that. Dissing the product because it doesn't deliver on the seat angle you prefer seems inappropriate to me. Go find a product that delivers what you want.

BTW. I don't buy your line that 27 degrees is a deeply reclined seat. I rode that angle for years on my rwd recumbent after coming from dfs, and imho it is the sweet-spot between aerodynamics, comfort and all round useability.

I suspect seat angles, like many things, are subject to a distribution curve. Based on my own experience, and observing discussions on BROL for the last 10 years, it seems to me that a small handful of people love deeply reclined seats (sub 20 degrees), a small handful of people (like you) love upright seats (30 degrees +), but most people prefer the goldilocks sweet spot in the 23 - 27 degree range. The Vendetta is for the first group, and the Silvio is for the latter. It would be great for Cruzbike to provide an option for people like you as well, but only time will tell if the Falcon will come to pass.

I hope you find what you're looking for.

Kind regards...

 

[Rick Youngblood]

How many brands of recumbent have you heard being sold like-new because they're causing chronic pain problems?

I sold my Tour Easy last year because it was causing lower back pain and bought a Vendetta. Everyone is different and may or may not have issues. I can certainly speak for myself when I say my Silvio or Vendetta does not cause me pain, none. I did an 11 hour ride last year. And look at Larry O., he did the 24 hour Sebring last year, and a 12 hour this year, as well as Ben T., and Maria Parker. BTW, I have chronic back and neck issues myself.

Most are happy with the stock Silvio and Vendetta seats and neck rest. Otherwise wouldn't the classifieds be be overwhelm with them for sale?

There are cheap alternatives, if for some reason the seat does not workout. But again most are completely happy!

Sure these bikes are not going to be a perfect fit for everyone, as are other recumbents. The seen folks sell their Metabike's, Corsa's, Easy Racers, the lists go on on and on.