Spring Time - Learning To Ride Time

[cranky cyclist]

Help I am listing! I tried doing a long group ride on my Silvio. One difficulty that I had was that I had a death grip on my left handlebar and another rider reported that I was listing to the left about 5 degrees. I believe that it might have to do with right side dominance. I had to complete the ride by forcing my self to sit straight. It did not feel comfortable. Anyone have this problem and how did you correct it? I realized after I switched back to my DF bike that my left leg is just along for the ride and not doing much work. So, now when on my DF I am forcing my left leg to do more of the work. I will also practice this on the Silvio but when I am riding alone.

 

[1happyreader]

my left leg is just along for the ride

Yeah me too. The faster I pedaled the later my left was.
The classic answer is single leg drills, where you pedal with just one leg. Easier on a trainer.
work on that shoe scraping motion, this is where clips are a plus.
consider it a bonus that the moving bottom bracket is gonna teach you to have a better pedal stroke.
later,,,, bye

 

[Dave Larson]

I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask, so if there's a better thread for newbies, please feel free to direct me there. I just bought a Silvio v1 frame and added the components necessary to complete it. 34 degrees outside, with snow and salt on the roads, so gently-sloped parking lots are not in my near future. I've got a big, open basement where I can get 40-50 feet in a straight line and have maybe 15' at each end where I can swing around the lally columns. The riding instructions warn against the temptation of pedaling too soon in the learning process, suggesting that learning to ride will take significantly longer.
How seriously should I take this admonition?
For the record, I've been on recumbents for 25+ years, mostly on a Counterpoint Presto, Bacchetta Aero, and Rans Screamer tandem. Lots of those years were exclusively 'bent riding, but lately I've added a Surly Pugsley and a Bike Friday back into the rotation and ride whichever best suits the planned ride.
Thanks for your input,
Dave
Rochester, NY

 

[hoyden]

I had 16 years recumbent riding experience when I bought my S30. When I got comfortable enough to pedal in a turn I needed about 50' to confidently make a 180. If I had a 15x50 space I wouldn't even try. YMMV.

 

[ratz]

I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask, so if there's a better thread for newbies, please feel free to direct me there. I just bought a Silvio v1 frame and added the components necessary to complete it. 34 degrees outside, with snow and salt on the roads, so gently-sloped parking lots are not in my near future. I've got a big, open basement where I can get 40-50 feet in a straight line and have maybe 15' at each end where I can swing around the lally columns. The riding instructions warn against the temptation of pedaling too soon in the learning process, suggesting that learning to ride will take significantly longer.
How seriously should I take this admonition?
For the record, I've been on recumbents for 25+ years, mostly on a Counterpoint Presto, Bacchetta Aero, and Rans Screamer tandem. Lots of those years were exclusively 'bent riding, but lately I've added a Surly Pugsley and a Bike Friday back into the rotation and ride whichever best suits the planned ride.
Thanks for your input,
Dave
Rochester, NY

Sounds like a great space to practice maneuver the bikes with the feet dangling down. Pedaling probably not in something you'll be tackling down there until you get really good (there no advantage practicing pedaling in a straight line in that small a space) once you can zoom in a circle feet on the ground in both directions you'll probably be able to pedal in a circle. . As far a the admonition. The kids in our family that learned to ride on gliders without pedals versus training wheels are far better bike handlers. To while you might look silly down there no one will see you and spring will definitely benefit from it.

 

[Dave Larson]

Good point about kids learning to ride by coasting. So far I was using a few pedal strokes to get up a little speed. I'll play around with "flintstoning" a bit more.
In turns, outside foot high (or at least not ahead of top of stroke) seemed much easier. Otherwise the turn pulls the pedal away from the foot, eh?

Sounds like a great space to practice maneuver the bikes with the feet dangling down. Pedaling probably not in something you'll be tackling down there until you get really good (there no advantage practicing pedaling in a straight line in that small a space) once you can zoom in a circle feet on the ground in both directions you'll probably be able to pedal in a circle. . As far a the admonition. The kids in our family that learned to ride on gliders without pedals versus training wheels are far better bike handlers. To while you might look silly down there no one will see you and spring will definitely benefit from it.

 

[Robert O]

Most turns won't require enough steering deflection to run you out of leg reach, but at low speed you might have to think about it. I came to my V20 from a rear drive high racer, and I found that there was a learning curve to being able to keep a straight line. Eventually I figured out that it was just a matter of being able to pedal smoothly and relax. I think picking up a feel for the bike coasting helps get you loose on the bike, keeps you from bad habits early. Welcome to our world!

 

[super slim]

Would having the Cruzbike set up on an indoor trainer, with the rear wheel supported from the ceiling, so it could swing to the right and left, help be closer to riding on the road?
There is a Video by John Tolhurst of this a LONG time ago!

 

[Dave Larson]

Most turns won't require enough steering deflection to run you out of leg reach, but at low speed you might have to think about it. I came to my V20 from a rear drive high racer, and I found that there was a learning curve to being able to keep a straight line. Eventually I figured out that it was just a matter of being able to pedal smoothly and relax. I think picking up a feel for the bike coasting helps get you loose on the bike, keeps you from bad habits early. Welcome to our world!

(There's 10"-14" of snow in the forecast over the next couple of days)
Since my turns are forced by the environment to be small in diameter, say 12' at one end of the basement and 20' at the other, I need to have enough momentum to coast through them. I'm working on straight starts and then ovals and eights around the support columns, taking 5-10 minutes at a go, several times a day. I figure a couple of months of that pace and keeping unpressured about progress should have me somewhat ready when there are dry roads again. Using pedals with toe clips and straps for now, and will go to my regular cleats and pedals when I get more comfortable.
One thing I figured out is that I'm used to having my feet at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock for heel clearance when cornering on fixed BB, and 12 o'clock/6 o'clock is where I need to be for slower, tighter turns with MBB.

 

[1happyreader]

(There's 10"-14" of snow in the forecast over the next couple of days)
12 o'clock/6 o'clock is where I need to be for slower, tighter turns with MBB.

With the upright seating on a Silvio V1 , you ought to be able to:
1. sit up for turn
2. lean out ( snowmobile turn)/ or lean bike in off of center while maintaining body position
3. slowly and gently pedal thru the turn.

It will allow a much tighter line for your low speed turns.

 

[ElyDave]

Having been stuck on the trainer all week due to crappy weather and pressure of work, I finally got out on the S40 today

Did my 25km test loop, conditions were cool and overcast with a light wind. My best averages last summer for this were
DF Audax bike 30.9km/h, 48:39
M5 - M-racer - 27.8km/h, 54min

Today, on the S40, with 100km under my belt, mostly on the indoor trainer, in Audax set-up 28.5km/h, 52:15
That was with a very high cadence, deliberately undergearing to help manage my wobbles as the lower gear = lower pedal pressure = less wobble. Still had a few moments of wobble, correct, wobble, over correct, head towards the ditch etc.

The S40 is much less aero than the M5, but seems much easier to get the power out.

Also followed this with 15 mins of car park drills, very worthwhile and will be repeated. Right hand turns proving harder than left hand turns.

Garmin trace here https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2577761420

 

[Gary123]

Df faster than recumbents?

 

[ElyDave]

On that loop, yes, and not a particularly lightweight DF either - my audax bike with full mudguards, rack and rackbag.

I can't work out why the M5 is so slow - seat angle is about 25degrees, similar to the V20, it's heavier, but so slippery I smoke DFs on any downhill without even pedalling. I've done a very quick audax on it but on that loop it doesn't seem to work well. I think the DF time was set in quite strong wind conditions and it seems that the DF gains more downwind than the recumbent gains upwind or crosswind.

I'm pleased with the S40 though, so early in the learning curve, much more to come from there I think

 

[ElyDave]

Another 40km on the turbo on Saturday, 50km on the road on Sunday and 28km on the road today.

Today included some car park drills as well. All going well until one LH loop when I managed to drop an inside shoulder and fall into the corner. Got the foot down OK, but accidentally grabbed a handful of front brake and missed the rear resulting in a fairly dramatic lifting of the rear wheel. What the two younsgters on the nearby swings thought, I have no idea.

Still not quite got the hang of the dropping the outside shoulder yet. The downwind and crosswind performance of this thing are pretty good, but it was more of an upper body day today - shoulders and triceps know they were active, particularly into the "dutch hills".

 

[SlowRoll1950]

I am riding a T50 that I assembled from a frame set. I am trying to figure out whether my initial challenges in riding the T50 are fit related or technique related. The seat is mounted fully forward and pretty upright. I have pulled in the MBB so I have slight bend at full leg extension. I have successfully pedaled in an empty parking lot for a couple of hours, but I am still working on how to grip/push/pull the handle bars to offset directional pressure from pedaling. Still feels wobbly and my turns are still wide and shallow. Not yet at all confident to ride in traffic or narrow streets. I do have a tendency to let my legs splay to the side rather than straight down. I wonder whether I am a little under-strengthed for riding a recumbent bike (I have a recumbent trike).

 

[Brad R]

I am riding a T50 that I assembled from a frame set. I am trying to figure out whether my initial challenges in riding the T50 are fit related or technique related. The seat is mounted fully forward and pretty upright. I have pulled in the MBB so I have slight bend at full leg extension. I have successfully pedaled in an empty parking lot for a couple of hours, but I am still working on how to grip/push/pull the handle bars to offset directional pressure from pedaling. Still feels wobbly and my turns are still wide and shallow. Not yet at all confident to ride in traffic or narrow streets. I do have a tendency to let my legs splay to the side rather than straight down. I wonder whether I am a little under-strengthed for riding a recumbent bike (I have a recumbent trike).

For me, it was a lot of driveway time ( I have a wide parking area) doing low speed turning. Basically the figure 8 drills with only enough pedaling to keep moving. My arms and hands were getting way too tired. So I knew I was doing wrong. So I started concentrating on trying to do the turning part of the figure eight with very little pressure on my hands and arms. I experimented with the amount of wheel turn, the amount of bicycle leaning in and the amount of body leaning out until I found the combination that allowed the bike to turn without me fighting it.

For going straight, I resist the pedal force induced steering force by pulling and not by pushing. I almost always pedal with a light enough force on the pedals (and my knees) so that I can pull with a light grip and partially open hand. Others talk about pushing, but the only time I push is in tight turns.

If you don’t have a big enough area in your driveway, spend time in an empty parking lot.
You have to use the drills as a guide to finding what works for you. Good luck.

Brad

 

[SlowRoll1950]

Thanks, Brad!

 

[paco1961]

Still peppering in parking lot drills before and after road rides. I'm to the point where I can turn a full circle within a block of 4 parking stalls - 2x2. Could do a circle in half that on DF so still plenty of room to improve. And lots of room to make those turns steadier.

As for straight line speed, still working on it. 20-21mph on flat or slight uphill feels ok but same speed downhill is quite a fright. But I'm only at about 250-300 miles so in no hurry. Check that. In plenty of a hurry but doing my best to temper the impatience!

 

[Opik]

From my experience (looks like it will work for any bent, I did this for T50 and the first part for Challenge Hurricane that I tested):
1. Search for a quiet slope, better if its a U shape, where you can go downhill then uphill. Also make sure it's free/almost free from cars. The U shape is good as you can get to top of the hill without having to push your bike up too much.
2. Just go downhill without any pedalling with feet dangling to prepare for any fall. At this phase learn to balance and brake. Repeat untill you get the balance and breaking right.
a. Go slowly first, Straighten the handlebars and always ready on the brake

3. Next is going downhill with feet on the pedals. Alternate your feet position : left foot forward, right foot forward, left foot up, right foot up.
4. This time start the pedaling. Go with the lowest gear, and start pedalling slowly while going downhill. Increase your cadence and gear when you feel comfortable with the current cadence and gear.
a. If its a U-shape, you can also feel how its like pedaling on the climb, and then stop once it gets too hard, dismount and push the bike to the top

5. Now, try to start moving on a flat surface like playing ground/empty parking lot. It may need a push or movement first.
6. Do straight lines
7. Do turns
8. Do circles, start from a big circle and make it smaller and smaller. Do right turning circles and left turning circles

9. Do the 8 shape / Infinity shape. start from a big circle and make it smaller and smaller. By this step, you just need more miles on the bike to gain confidence and competence.

----------------------
Issues:
1. Left and right balance. Many people are righties, including me, so Recumbents, which require left and right to balance are a bit hard. You will tilt to your left side many-many times as you learn. Your left side will be hurt as your muscles learn to be active
2, Pull technique to balance. Pedal left, pull the left handlebar ; Pedal right, pull right
3. Push technique to balance. Pedal left, push right handlebar ; pedal right, push left
4. the push technique, although harder, comes handy if you are pushing against the seat to have more power to defeat a climb

 

[Opik]

Just realized something these days,

As I use flat pedals, I always have trouble balancing right and left leg, wich doesn't happen when you're already going, but on starts, slow speed and uphill, its a real challenge. One thing that amuses me that in group rides, my stroke is smoother an I feel my legs force is more balanced and less tired.

It was then I realize. I've been dominantly using my right leg to push all the way while the left leg does less. If the cycle motion is a clock(viewed from the right), I think my right leg pushes from 10 to 3 while the the left leg pushes from 12 to 2. I also strain my leg muscles and never lt them rest.

I then tried to push the pedals from around 10 to 2 and then let the leg muscle rest, This resulted in much more power and better pedalling, I don't feel that strain too much while still having respectable speed. I also feel much more balanced as my right leg doesn't feel reaching out too much anymore and my left gets more work (it also affects my lft side which seems having more work to do too).