Starting to get a feel for the difference in the Vendetta and Silvo ride

[ratz]

Let the fun begin; I'm starting to log miles on both bikes on similar routes and it's fun to see the differences. Suddenly the Silvio is a decidedly relaxed ride. I can jump on it and go; and I don't feel like I'm laying down at all. I get on the Vendetta and the bike just wants to run.

Oddly I've been wearing bike shoes for eons. I jump on the Silvo and I go; every single time I get on the Vendetta I go a block and decide that my shoes are too loose. It's rather amusing. The feet/bb are the same height, the pedals are the same. I'm certain I always tighten my shoes the same out of habit; but that extra 7 degree and the stiffer frame make me feel like my feet will pull out of the shoe.

I like the my custom bullhorns more than I like the drops; but I'm going to give the drops the remainder season to see if they grow on me. Basically they give me too much leverage which gives me too much steering input, but that could simply be a function of being use to the narrow bullhorns.

I surprised myself today; I don't race other people, but I do like to race against myself. On my past rides on the Silvio I would go for broke on my descents and climbs. Today I got to a couple of my favorites and I decide to just let the Silvio run on it's own as I coasted up to 35 mph; and spun myself comfortably up the climbs. My reasoning? Well when I come down that same road next week on the Vendetta I'm going to obliterate any times I get on the Silvio so why bother; instead I decide to just conserve energy for the rest of the ride and climbs.

Without a doubt; Silvio is heavier (8 lbs on my setup, @ 31), smoother on the rough roads; and I need a 36/32 to climb some of the hills around here. The Vendetta is lighter @ 23lbs, my 36/28T is overkill; stiffer, and rougher on our bad sections of road. I can see that the Silvo will become my Route Scouting bike, Social bike, Recovery ride bike. The Vendetta is going be the racer and the runner.

Although one does have to wonder; after looking a both frames closely.... I might have to start looking for someone unloading a V1. I'm pretty sure that the Boom and the Front Fork from the V1/V2 would fit on the Silvio. A quick trip to the powder coaters for a black refinishing and I'd have a stiff front end and suspension on the back. Probably would look about 4lbs off that front fork; but might tip the bike geometry forward a bit. Perhaps someone else will try that before the winter urges get the better of me.

 

[Jeremy S]

Hey Bob, I weighed my Silvio

Hey Bob, I weighed my Silvio at ~27.4 lbs dry. I guess you have more accessories on there.

You mentioned that the Vendetta is rougher on bad roads, is it a bothersome difference or just a noticeable difference? I do wonder what a lighter/simpler rigid frame would be like compared to the Silvio, which definitely still lets me feel the bumps (we have a lot of those around here).

 

[Rick Youngblood]

I've wondered about a V1 or

I've wondered about a V1 or V2 front end on the Silvio too. But I think it would need some sort of spacer at the fork crown to compensate for geometry rake, etc. That and the chain stay extension you would have a stiffer more aero Silvio, thus faster, yes.

 

[scabinetguy]

Vendetta front end on a Silvio

Bob, I've done just that. As some of you know I have a Vendett 1.5 and a Silvio 2.0. I like the Vendetta front end so much( stiff and aero) that I ordered a new Vendetta frame so that I could use the main hyroformed section to upgrade the 1.5 and try the new front end on the Silvio. The result was super The head tube went from 70 degrees to 74 and the back rest went from 27 degrees to 30. Handing is great and I probably shed 4lbs. There were no modifications needed at all and the handle bar height is perfect. I've found that the need for suspension lessens as the recline increases....Steve

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Wow, that looks real good. A

Wow, that looks real good. A Silvetta!!

 

[ratz]

Jeremy,
I'm guessing the

Jeremy,

I'm guessing the weight is from a couple of things. (1) swapping the wheels; I took the good wheels of the Silvio and put them on Mrs Ratz's Silvio; that was always the plan after I found out if she liked the bike. So I have her low end wheels on my Silvio right now. I can certainly tell they are almost a 1lb heavier and don't run out coasts very well; but since I'll often ride the Silvio with her; it evens things out. When she starts to drop me I'll have to do something about it. The rest would probably be (2) my headlight which is heavy; and the (3) showerpass water system which is ultra convenient but not light. (4) the full set of tools I'm carrying for flats; which the number of kids we have calling for a rescue care is a last resort. I should weight her's which has less tools and better wheels for comparison next time I have the scale in the garage.

The rougher ride: 90% of the time no big deal. If you have ever see the photos of our chipseal over on BROL; then you have an idea what the other 10% of the time is like. On those bad roads the Silvio is simply faster and I can tolerate it; with the Vendetta not so much. I took one test run and decided I would simply use it's speed to go around those roads the long way very few are mandatory but most of them are the proverbial shortcut. This is not my photo but it is representative of what we have in spots. I carry a road rash first aid kit just because of it. I have never had to use it on myself but I have help several unfortunates bandage a wound.

 

[ratz]

Steve,
That's awesome. I

Steve,

That's awesome. I figured it would be about 4lbs. I was originally thinking that modification would use the silvio carbon chainstay. I wasn't sure the Vendetta chainstay would fit. I think you just breathed new life into the used V1 market. After a few proving rides I'd have that off to the powder coater because it looks like a winner. That 30 degrees is going to grab some attention for some people. So now we have the the official bikes: Quest, Silvio, and Vendetta; and the mods: Turbo Quest, and Silvetta.... It's almost august we should soon see what the new Silvio rev looks like.

Did you use the front end from the new bike because it was less work or did you need an "un-cut" steerer tube?

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Bob we have a lot of that

Bob we have a lot of that coarse chipseal on the back roads around here too. My ex-Metabike is a rough rider, but I tell you what, the Compass Cycle Extra Leger/Extralight supple tires made the ride go from completely un-tolerable/un-rideable to the point that I stopped riding those roads to rideable and tolerable. And some of the less coarse chipseal roads was hardly noticeable and I gained a lot more speed too. They are expensive but worth every dime. However, I can't say how they compare to your tubeless or tubular tires. I run the 28mm on the S2.

 

[scabinetguy]

Vendetta front end

I put the new front end on the Silvio because my Vendetta is set up for Shimano 6800 11 speed Ultegra Di2 shifting. This requires a few changes to the front detailer stem and shims for the BB cups....so, it was easier.

 

[super slim]

Steve,
Is this the new Silvio

Steve,
Is this the new Silvio V 2.2?????

Has anyone got an idea of what the NEW Silvio in August is going to look like????

The suspense is KILLING ME!!!!

Super Slim

 

[Ivan]

Steve, that looks amazing! Us

Steve, that looks amazing! Us Silvio 2 owners were wondering what a Vendetta front end would feel like. Now tell us more what the suspension feel likes now that you have no front suspension but you still have the rear damper.

If I had to guess, the new Silvio front-end may have no suspension too! :O

Now I wonder if the Silvio 2 front-end can upgrade a Silvio 1.0 to a 1.5??

 

[Robert Holler]

New Silvio details should

New Silvio details should arrive soon. Keep an eye open!

Robert

 

[snilard]

Mr. Ratz, do You have some

Mr. Ratz, do You have some numbers? From your gears It is obvious that Vendetta climbs better than Silvio. I am really curious about some average speeds comparisons.

 

[scabinetguy]

New Silvio ????

I don't have a clue about the new Silvio. The idea of the Vendetta front end is something I kicked around about a year ago. At that time I had emailed JT about the possibility of doing this and he said that it should work. His only caution was the resulting head tube angle.
I recently took the bike out for a short 30 miler and I see no hint of any handling problems whatsoever. The steering is just slightly more sensitive but not a positive or negative. I think that the 30 degree backrest angle would be desirable for a lot of riders, although the Vendetta is just fine for me. To put it in a nutshell, the bike rides like a Vendetta with a 30 degree backrest.

 

[Gromit]

Surely, the ride must be a

Surely, the ride must be a little bit more comfortable with rear suspension on the Silvetta compared against the Vendetta?

I wonder if JT will remove the Silvio's front suspension?
He posted a lot of info about reasons for removing front suspension in his blog about the Sofrider and Quest. Here's an example, "Removing the front suspension improves the solid feel of the front fork, removes the squishy feel when stopping hard and gives a crisper, cleaner feel to the handling." .

 

[ratz]

Numbers are coming

Snilard,

I'm gathering them; I only have a single power meter which is now on the Vendetta. I'm pretty comfortable on the bike now and will be running may of the same routes I run the Silvio on. When Strava's say I set a new record on a section I go and compare the numbers for the two bikes. Unfortunately that doesn't factor in weather and rider strength. I do have a sheltered sprint near here that was telling. I like to warm up with a sprint on this section; my record is on the Silvio; and I was pedaling smooth hard with one small coast section when I passed a dog walker. My second best time is on the Vendetta on the first and only try. The V was slower by 4 seconds over .8 miles.

Silvo graph on top; Vendetta graph on the bottom. Pink and Purple tell the tail.

The telemetry does not lie. The power graph for the Vendetta clearly shows that I was coasting for two large sections due to hazard avoidance. The Vendetta simply turns power into speed more efficiently;

Silvio 2.0

Vendetta

 

[Gromit]

VendaQuest?

Steve (scabinetguy). Would the Vendetta front end fit into the Quest 3.0 frame? I don't suppose that you've tried that?

 

[scabinetguy]

Quest 3.0


I've got my doubts about that one Gromit.
I have the turbo Quest on loan to a friend of mine. We did a 200 miler in Malibu about 3 weeks ago and he won't give it back.

 

[marshall2389]

@Scabinetguy, that Silvio 2.0

@Scabinetguy, that Silvio 2.0 with a Vendetta front end (now known as the Silvetta) looks absolutely amazing. That is such a cool idea. You just created a wonderful middle bike between the Silvio and the Vendetta. I am curious about how it rides without the front suspension. Please comment on the ride smoothness and perceived effects of increased front end stiffness.

 

[scabinetguy]

Silvetta


I notice the front suspension more on the Silvio 1.5 than the 2.0. I find that that the more the recline the less the need for suspension. Although, the suspension is nice on rough roads and roads that have been chipsealed (almost all roads in Calif.). The ride on the Silvetta is stiffer and very responsive. I do notice the lighter weight and quicker acceleration. There is a little less weight on the head rest but the position is very similar to the Vendetta and after a while I don't notice a lot of difference between the two.