Steering damper/stabilizer

[jond]

as a new vendetta rider i can understand the temptation to stabilise the front end.

i am a rank beginner 260klm on the v2. it is a tough gig but i find solace in the forums here with all the guys and gals who have trodden the same path albeit unique to themselves. with or without a steering damper .....mostly without as far as i can see. therefore i will keep on learning without the damper. incremental gains and practice practice practice.

mike i know you said you had only nine weeks to learn but i believe that is enough to tune yourself and the bike in.

personally i am still dialing the bike in. especially the headrest. i am finding the more vertical the head is the better my balance. i am seeing less and less of the veering off line and the "death grip" is starting to relax about 40% of the time.

john tolhurst designed this bike to be ridden as is but if modification helps then help away.

last night up a 2-3% grade i was challenged by a roadie. suffice to say i passed he chased and chased over the 7 minute climb. he never passed but that might have been because of my stability and wide handle bar. but i like to think the personal record (my first one on the v2) was the reason. point being whilst being chased i never veered off line as i pushed hard. once over the hill i did not see him again. so like everyone has discovered the "shazam" wow the V can climb.

( cannot wait to put the power meter on once i am competent. i figure on at least a thousand klm for basic competence. )

so mike ride a thousand kilometers over the next nine weeks and i am sure you will have the confidence and competence to ride the v past thousands of DF riders in a very relaxed fashion.

new bullhorn handlebars should arrive today profile airwing o/s but i am starting to get used to and liking the original bar more . i have gone from rolling down the incline thinking oh no what have i done to laying back and doing slow figure 8's in the carpark counterbalancing with upper torso and leaning out. i have followed the advice of members here in how to learn and take my time.

now i have started riding clipped in. wow . scary scary but only when i come to a stop and have not managed to unclip. no embarrassing slow fall overs but some images i would not like to see in print best wishes mike for the adventure. jon.

 

[LarryOz]

I did not really notice that there was better handling with the stabalizer and the disks.
But, half of my O-rings had actually broken by the time Sebring came around and I never replaced them. I need to get UV resistant O-rings so they don't deteriorate so quickly and brake.
In any event:
I was still thrown all over the rode by big gusts and big trucks. Quite scary really. With the disks, you learn to lean into the wind to compensate for a steady wind, but the only thing that can save you from the gusts is being attentive and focused all the time.
It is quite tiring to be that attentive all the time - it is amazing how much energy it uses.
I probably won't race dual discs unless I am sure wind is very low.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

I probably won't race dual discs unless I am sure wind is very low.

Larry, I was out riding in no wind conditions a few rides ago. So no wind and no gusts, no "attentiveness". BAM, out of no where this rouge gust caught me off guard, I almost lost it. If it weren't for the superb handling of the Vendetta I may have wrecked...scary!

 

[LarryOz]

Where you riding full discs Rick? I guess the rule is - always be attentive! You never know what is going to happen.
The only thing you know is that the faster you are going, the faster "it" it will happen.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Where you riding full discs Rick?

No disc's. I've rode with 50mm aero wheels in the gusts, it's hand full. And with gusts coming off the mountains through the canyons around here, I get pounced around pretty good at times, I will stick with 24-30mm deep rims for now.

I guess the rule is - always be attentive! You never know what is going to happen.
The only thing you know is that the faster you are going, the faster "it" it will happen.

Yeah, like squirrels, jack rabbits and deer making Fast xings. Never know what's going to be thrown at you.

 

[Eric Winn]

...
Yeah, like squirrels, jack rabbits and deer making Fast xings. Never know what's going to be thrown at you.

Don't forget Bobcats....

 

[jond]

in australia you do no want to end up in the pouch of a kangaroo or hit a wombat and the possums are terrors. look out for the poisonous snakes on the side of the track and those goannas are 5 feet long.

i now have about 300klm on the v2. now i am starting to make a connection to leg steering. it has been an epiphany almost.... the death grip is lessoning and i spend a lot of time just riding not thinking. when i tense up look out i am unstable again. still practicing my low speed low low figure 8s in the carpark and leg steering whilst full prone.

if i can get it then anyone can get it. i love my cruzbike. already. i can tell she wants to go fast but gird you loins my beauty till i catch up .

 

[LarryOz]

Way to go Jon! Yes - My shoulders and arms used to be so sore for the first month of riding due to my "death grip". It's almost like if you don't think about it and just ride, it is relaxing, but the moment you start trying to concentrate on a specific aspect, then you tense up. I can't wait until you are comfortable enough to cut it loose!. With your power, man you are going to need an air-foil on the back, just to keep the rear tire in contact with the road!

 

[tiltmaniac]

I don't think that I'm an amateur handler anymore, but I'd still like a steering damper/steering lockout. Here is why:
1) I actually have to carry the bike up and down stairs. I've had multiple incidents of the front causing harm to me as it swung about
2) I can park the bike in more places without it falling over.
3) I hate having to (re)adjust the derailleurs because the bike fell over, or because the boom turned 180-degrees while I was carrying it.
4) It is, imho, easier to learn to control the bike with a touch of steering damping
5) It is easier to ride with no hands with steering damping.
- I *can* ride with no hands while pedaling lightly, even with some turns without a steering damper, but I was able to no-hands far more easily when I had a steering damper on the bike.
(It isn't there anymore because it was a hackjob and the O-rings all died of UV exposure, sweat, and friction).

As I've said elsewhere, I'd likely buy a damper in a second if it made living with the bike more easy. I don't need it for just plain riding (it is just a nicety there if I can ride no-hands more often), but for parking and transportation it would be a big big help.

 

[Jeremy S]

1) I actually have to carry the bike up and down stairs. I've had multiple incidents of the front causing harm to me as it swung about

I also carry my Silvio up and down stairs. I pick it up by the handlebars (with two hands of course) and it's pretty easy to carry, I can get the back to swing a bit by tilting the bike but it's not a problem. How do you pick it up?

 

[tiltmaniac]

I pick it up by the handlebars and by the seat-- the CoM is rear of my handlebars by a couple of inches, so picking it up by the handlebars doesn't work well since the bike would like to swing down and have the rear wheel stay in contact.
When I have the Banana bags on there (and stuff on 'em), the CoM is *well* behind the bars.

 

[Jeremy S]

I pick it up by the handlebars and by the seat-- the CoM is rear of my handlebars by a couple of inches, so picking it up by the handlebars doesn't work well since the bike would like to swing down and have the rear wheel stay in contact.
When I have the Banana bags on there (and stuff on 'em), the CoM is *well* behind the bars.

Interesting, mine feels totally balanced when I lift it by the handlebars, but we do all load our bikes up differently.

When I pick up the bike to put it on a repair stand, I use one hand on the top of the headrest bar and the other on the section of the boom between the handlebars and the fork (where many people mount a water bottle). Have you tried that?

 

[DavidCH]

I've rode with 50mm aero wheels in the gusts, it's hand full.

I have 50mm on the back but decided something less on the front; maybe 30mm. The wind here in the afternoons is epic. The hotter it gets the more of a seabreeze kicks in.

 

[tiltmaniac]

Interesting, mine feels totally balanced when I lift it by the handlebars, but we do all load our bikes up differently.

When I pick up the bike to put it on a repair stand, I use one hand on the top of the headrest bar and the other on the section of the boom between the handlebars and the fork (where many people mount a water bottle). Have you tried that?

I do the same when putting it on the repair stand. I'm not worried about the rear wheel hanging down low then, though, and, since I'm moving so much less, not as worried about the body of the bike smacking into me.
It is possibly that I'm simply shorter, which makes these things more annoying (have to lift the bike higher comparatively, handlebars in different position, etc)

 

[LarryOz]

LarryOz, I noticed you raced with two disks at Sebring, did you find the stabilizer helped with handling of the front disk?

No, I did not really notice any help with that. It is not very stiff. I only have it on to help manage the bike when it is not moving. That is when it is a bear!

 

[Rick Youngblood]

I only have it on to help manage the bike when it is not moving.

I believe Gary's stabilizer would be a great addition just for this reason! I'm wondering if the Garmin O-rings would be more UV resistant!?! I've use these for several years on others bikes without a problem.

 

[LarryOz]

I'm wondering if the Garmin O-rings would be more UV resistant!?!

One can easily purchase UV resistant O-rings online. They are reasonably priced

 

[Balor]

Personally, I think that this thread, especially that Ratz reply, is a perfect example of 'Hazing'. 'We suffered, so you must too!'.
While it does sound kinda fitting for a 'tribe' - 'tribes' are known to have initiation rites that often amounts to torture to promote loyalty in members - I think this is not how civilized people should behave.

Wheel flop and steering inertia are very real problems, and the fact that you later adapt to them does not mean that they 'go away' - they are just 'masked' by habit. But in extreme situations, when very fast and precise manoeuvres are needed to executed, steering damper might actually save your life by reducing the effort needed to control for boom inertia that does NOT go away. I = mR^2, and you cannot break the laws of physics.

I think that, barring design changes (negative angle and shorter boom), steering dampers should be 'factory-fitted' on Cruzbikes.
FWD MBB is an excellent design with great potential and real benefits, but you do NOT have to take bad with the good unless you absolutely have to.

 

[hoyden]

I tried a steering damper on my Azub Max USS recumbent because at the time I thought the steering was too sensitive. After one ride I took it off because although it stabilized the steering, it slowed down and dampened the tiny steering corrections that occur during normal riding. Eventually I habituated to the quick steering. I bought my Silvio in May and it took me much longer to learn how to steer confidently. Wheel flop is annoying and I consciously take it into consideration when parking the bike. Sometimes the wheel still flops but so far no damage.

 

[Balor]

I tried a steering damper on my Azub Max USS recumbent because at the time I thought the steering was too sensitive. After one ride I took it off because although it stabilized the steering, it slowed down and dampened the tiny steering corrections that occur during normal riding. Eventually I habituated to the quick steering. I bought my Silvio in May and it took me much longer to learn how to steer confidently. Wheel flop is annoying and I consciously take it into consideration when parking the bike. Sometimes the wheel still flops but so far no damage.

You do not need damping for USS, since it is remotely controlled and actual steering inertia is very low - just your fork, your wheel and your hands, neither of those are extremely heavy nor located far from steering axis.
Hamster bars might benefit from damping, perhaps, due to their usually long tiller (hence, inertia). I think I'll get one and experiment with that - one of my buddies has an RWD recumbent with hamster bars (it used to be mine, actually).

But I'm positively sure (and unbiased comments show) that it DOES provide benefit for MBB design due to great steering inertia.
Without one, you'll have to damp it with your arms (and legs, if you REALLY skilled). Having one will free some 'resources' and should make steering better, more precise AND less tiring.