TTrike!!!!

[Rick Youngblood]

Thanks for the update

Thanks for the update Jim...looking forward to videos and updates...I'm truly excited about the TTrike drop in for my wife and look forward to the day this becomes available.

 

[Lief]

Great weekend!
Thanks for

Great weekend!
Thanks for sharing the numbers.
I've been checking recumbents.com every 6 hours for the last 36 hours looking for results.

Still don't know how you can do more than one sprint effort! after one - I'm cooked for the day.

 

[Eric Winn]

Interesting - the

Interesting - the velodrome scenario may be one area where the offset TTRIKE design could be an advantage. Of course that also continues to suggest this design may work better with right turns vs left turns or vice versa rather than being equally adroit at turning in either direction.

-Eric

 

[Eric Winn]

Jim - come to the Waterford,

Jim - come to the Waterford, MI HPV races usually in May and bring a spare TTRIKE adapter for me. I'll race you in both 2-wheeled and trike mode for all the races that we can make the logistics work to compete in. I assume the rear assembly on the version 2.0 Vendetta and the V20 are the same. Is that correct?

That should be an interesting test venue for the TTRIKE since the race is conducted on an automotive race track with a lot of different twists and turns and at least one little hill section. That little bugger can get kind of annoying on a 1 hour TT...

I might bring my Bluevelo Strada velomobile along too...

-Eric

 

[Eric Winn]

Tilt-Lock designs

Jim, although the design specs are quite different I would strongly recommend you guys get with Wim Schermer, if you haven't already, and look at what he and his team has come up with for a tilt-lock for the VeloTilt. Even if that solution is not suitable for the TTRIKE there are likely a lot of lessons learned that should be valuable to you in finding a compatible solution for the TTRIKE.

-Eric

Note: The VeloTilt link I included above is the direct, original link and opens in a new window/tab. Wim's blog is in Dutch but once the page is loaded just go to the right side and select English or your preferred language in the "Translate this Blog" selector and it will redisplay translated with varying effectiveness in the selected language.

 

[super slim]

Eric that looks very much

Eric that looks very much like a home made disc brake.
Would a simpler way be to cut out a 150 mm diameter aluminum disc, bolted in place on a 74 pcd chain ring and use a BB7 MTB disk applicator, as these have a 17 to 1, mechanical advantage to the cable pull (34.5 mm cable movement to 2.1 mm pad movement)?

 

[Eric Winn]

Yeah but it is a factor of

Yeah but it is a factor of the overall VeloTilt design. That same page has a link that goes back through their earlier efforts at a tilt-lock. The key break through for Wim's team seems to be the new grip lock component.

They started with essentially a disc brake caliper and I think a pair of disc brake assemblies but it wouldn't hold.

-Eric

 

[super slim]

The Velo Tilt looks REALLY

The Velo Tilt looks REALLY GOOD and VERY FAST!!!!
When are you buying one?
It is a good concept of suspension and tilt when compared to the Munzo trike.

The American tilting trike looks nearly as fast but the big rear wheels without a new pivot location spools it.
Its rear end is similar to the black max.
Is there any details on the tilt lock?

 

[3WHELZ]

The diabolical plan

The plan -- upgrade my 1.0 to a TTRIKE, give it to my wife and then purchase a new Silvio. So far, she is interested. Like others, we have purchased many trikes and have sold a few over the years. This design may actually meet the "goldielocks" factor.

Regarding the wheel scrub, has there been any consideration to allowing the rear wheels to pivot laterally? Since they are trailing, they should align with the direction of leading (front) wheel.

 

[milcrow]

I have ridden a StreetStrider (inverted tilting delta) stand-up trike for several years. It has no tilt lock but it's pretty easy to balance at a stop, and it's extremely stable on wet, slippery surfaces. This and my experience riding my Sofrider leads me to believe that a tilt-lock may be unnecessary. My SS uses Sturmey-Archer drum brakes, BTW.

I see the biggest benefit of the TTrike being improved stability in rain on slippery surfaces (metal, wood, mud, etc.) that can cause the back wheel of a Cruzbike to slip out from under the rider. Better wet stability is really needed for Cruzbike commuting (since many cycle commuters frequently ride in rain). Another possible benefit is added cargo/passenger capacity--another need of urban transit cyclists.

Two questions for Jim:
-Do TTrike wheels eliminate the need for rear suspension?
-Might TTrike wheels eliminate the need for handlebars?

I ask the second question because I love to ride no-hands at speed because I can reliably steer with my legs, but it's hard to start and stop without the bars. If I had two wheels in back, however, it might make more sense to have under-seat handles (less weight, wind resistance in front).

 

[super slim]

How much effort is required for the StreetStrider compared to your Softrider to maintain the same speed?

The StreetStrider will be very stable as it is a tilt steer tadpole trike, so when stationary it can not tip over, just like a recumbent trike.

The TTrike system halves the Silvio rear end movement over a bump, but not eliminate it.

 

[milcrow]

I cannot maintain or even reach the same speed on my StreetStrider as on my Sofrider. The StreetStider weighs 50lbs/22kg and takes significantly more effort to propel than any bicycle, and the wind resistance can be daunting. With good air on a level surface I top out at only about 18mph/30kph on the Strider.

A StreetStrider is actually a reverse-delta trike with lean-to-steer. It takes a little practice to stand on one while stationary because the rider's weight will cause it to lean one way or another--that's why I'm guessing that one could learn to similarly balance a stationary TTrike with no tilt lock.

From studying the videos and links Jim posted, it looks as if the iLean might smooth the ride as well as a rear spring suspension due to the seesaw effect. I was thinking it could allow for a stronger, lighter, less expensive hard-tailed frame for an entry-level Cruzbike.

 

[super slim]

I thought it would be a lot more effort to ride!!!
I was going to suggest the StreetStrider to a friend, with a wife that has balance problems, as she did not like a recumbent or Adult trike ideas.
If it is hard to balance when stationary, then this idea is not an option!

I think suspension is still needed for a utility bike that goes over kerbs etc, and is NOT a racer where every gram counts.

 

[milcrow]

Your friend should test-ride a StreetStrider. I have met people who could not balance on a bicycle that have no problems riding a SS. It's an amazingly stable vehicle. I've ridden thousands of miles over wet surfaces, and never once tipped it or even lost traction. I once even accidentally hit a street curb at full speed and the SS just went up and over.

Per a TTrike-equipped Cruzbike, I think the iLean actually qualifies as a suspension device--possibly better that the typical single-pivot mountain bike's rear spring. Stephen Nurse' calculations are a bit over my head, but it looks like the dampening expressed as functional wheel diameter is by a factor of four. No clue as to how that compares to my V2K's suspension, though.

 

[WhiteSilvio]

SPOTTED ON BENTRIDER.COM

I was most interested to see the article on Bentrider "Recumbent Cycle-Con 2015 Coverage (part 1)".
When in the 'Read More>>' mode, some way down the page came upon a Cruzbike entry showing an updated prototype of a tilt mechanism.

I was very intrigued to see the newer mechanism, which although not as simple as the 'two pedals at 180 degrees to each other', looks pretty good, and probably (IMHO) a great deal more marketable than the slightly strange look of the rear wheels not being in line with each other.

So will Jim and the team be making any comment on this latest development to the trike project?

I can't wait to hear and see more about this update.

Ta for now,
John

 

[Charles.Plager]

I was very intrigued to see the newer mechanism, which although not as simple as the 'two pedals at 180 degrees to each other', looks pretty good, and probably (IMHO) a great deal more marketable than the slightly strange look of the rear wheels not being in line with each other.

I miss the simplicity of the other design. But I believe you're right. The new device (and with the needed tilt-lock) should be a lot easier to market.

Indeed, this could transform the go-fast trike market.

Well done, Cruzbike.

 

[Apollo]

I miss the simplicity of the other design.

Also, the original might be lighter and have possibly better aero. This version is refined and has a much more marketable appearance with the equal positioning of the wheels. Don't know of other advantages besides the added stability and lock. Hoping this product will be a great success for Cruzbike.

 

[Rampa]

Brakes and managing brake forces are problematic for the wheels-on-cranks design. You really don't want your wheel lifting up in the air relative to the bottom bracket when you brake. Kind of like how suspension dives and stink-bugs on a mountain bike.

 

[super slim]

Do you think it will be fast enough (definitely in corners!!!) to get the 700C Catrike riders away from their love childs???

 

[Apollo]

Brakes and managing brake forces are problematic for the wheels-on-cranks design. You really don't want your wheel lifting up in the air relative to the bottom bracket when you brake. Kind of like how suspension dives and stink-bugs on a mountain bike.

Were brakes ever tested on the original? I remember Jim raced it without brakes earlier this year but haven't kept updated on the development of the first unit and its recent use. I've been very busy since the beginning of the riding season and was surprised by the total change in design of the product.