V2.2 front derailleur help

twhbent

twhbent

Active Member
Let me start by saying that I'm no bicycle mechanic YET and I still have all my hair (today), not sure for how much longer though due to the issues with my front derailleur. My crank is 53/39 tooth with a 11/28 cassette(all components are Sram Force: fd,rd,brakes,brifter etc).
The issue I'm experiencing is when in the large crank the chain rubs the underneath side of the cage at the derailleur pivot point when shifted to the large cassette and the next 3 sized cassettes down toward the smallest. When in the small crank and small cassette there is rubbing on the outside edge of the cage. I initially didn't have this issue when I purchased the bike but when the rubbing began I tried to correct the problem and only made it worse. So off to the LBS(25 miles one way) I went where they replaced the cable and adjusted the derailleur.
Well they partially corrected the issues of rubbing. I was told that I had to choose which rub I could tolerate the small crank or large crank. Because the rubbing wasn't an issue when I purchased the bike I decided to try another shop(50miles one way). The results where actually worse. So I'm reaching out to the PROFESSIONALS here for any suggestions.
Would the Sram Yaw f/d be of any help with correcting this issue? Also in the future I might try the Q-Ring set up. Will these rings require special front and rear derailleurs? If so what type derailleurs are suggested that will correct the current issue and then work for the Q-Ring? At this point I'm not really wanting to try the electronic shifting $$$$$$$. I know this is a long winded question so thanking you in advance for any Help/Suggestion.
I tried to attach pictures but they were to large and not sure how to make them smaller and attach them.
I know it can be done but it is above me.
Out to the garage to reck havic with the issue.
Thank you.
 
jond

jond

Zen MBB Master
i use a sram red yaw front mech. i have an fsa 39-53 klite front chainset. my cassettes vary from 11-25 to 11-40 and need only some minor adjustment of b screw and limits on rear mech. i use the spacer ring on the smaller cassette but not on the 11-40 or 11-36. once i set the front yaw i have never needed to adjust again. sram red brifters.
cannot comment upon q rings. there are many many tutorials on the net about setting up the front mech. including yaw types. the yaw type definitely is a step up say from my df durace front mech though to be fair it shifts very well but is more prone to rub. please note i have a large frame vendetta 2.2 so the longest chain line of all vendettas. edit i am not a pro and i have no hair.
 
ratz

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
TWH,

Ok this could be tough be we can try.

So first some basics.

Is your force front derailleur a Force or a Force 22. I ask because the Force 22 is a YAW derailleur. The setup for each is rather different. There are excellent videos on youtube that show the details but it's important that we give you the correct video for your model derailleur. The 22 has "22" printed in huge letters on the derailleur.

<rant> So as you've discovered it's a sad state of affairs that such a low number of bike Mechanics that really know how to tune a derailleur. Add in fear of recumbents and things can get frustrating trying to get them to help. Any Paid mechanic that tells you he could get it dialed in; either doesn't know what he's doing or didn't notice that something in your gear set is bent.</rant>

Your specified gear 53/39 and 11/28 should sift flawless with those rings and with qring in the future. Your Force Derailleur has "trim" on it which allows for a "Half" position between high and low and you should never have to have chain rub if it's installed correctly. I have a Force on my Silvio and it's completely dialed in and has remained so all summer that groupset is very reliable.

Ok To truly do it yourself and get is dialed in tight and clean you need a couple things.

1) Time to watch a couple videos on how to setup a FD, recommend since the LBS let you down.

2) A bike proper stand of some sort to hold the bike while you work on it. I here a lot of people say "I'm not a bike mechanic" I don't want to buy a stand. Well they worth the cost because it makes everything easier and saves hours and hours of frustration. The different between a bike mechanic and a non-mechanic is that the mechanic owns a stand the other guy does not. Once you have a stand everything else because a lot easier and less frustrating. For reasonable prices Park Tool PCS-10 works good with the Vendetta and Silvios; the PCS-9 is a little too flimsy in my opinion.

3) A third hand tool http://www.parktool.com/product/cable-stretcher-bt-2 this is a super cheap tool that will ensure you can get the cable tight when connecting derailleur. In-fact it the one tool I know that ensure you can actually get the cable TOO tight without wrecking the cable. At $10 not having one is silly because a cable ruined by a pliers is $25 lost.

That's really all you need to succeed; and knowing how to tune your derailleurs won't force you to be a bike mechanic; but it will make you able to adjust the one item on your bike the will need the most attention beside pumping your tires. Cable housing compresses with time so sooner or later you have adjust the cables.

Lastly on the Vendetta 2.2 I strongly recommend just using a "cable liner" to route the cable around the BB don't use a full on cable housing. The housing are often very stiff and want to spring back to a straight orientation; when using that stiff housing it makes adjusting the FD almost impossible.

So let us know the exact front derailleur you have and then you can start with the correct video and work forward from there.
 
ratz

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Traditional FD

YAW Derailleur

A lot of times they will say "1-2mm" spacing the most reliable to measure that is to use your "1.5" allen wrench which is 1.5mm wide; if it just barely fits to the open space you need to measure

The key take home are:

1) Lower Limit screw stops the FD from going too far inward on the little ring where the chain would fall off
2) Cable taughtness controls how far out the derailleur can move onto the big ring.
3) Upper limit screw give a hard stop to #2 so that the chain can't over shoot.

If your cable need to be Piano string tight when the derailleur is in the lower position or you shifting won't ever be dialed in.
 
trplay

trplay

Zen MBB Master
Question. Would you only use the cable liner to the Silvio also? If so how long would the cable liner run towards the FD and in the other direction towards the cable adj stop?
 
ratz

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
trplay said:
Question. Would you only use the cable liner to the Silvio also? If so how long would the cable liner run towards the FD and in the other direction towards the cable adj stop?
Click to expand...

Use to be some good photos in older threads but the photo seem to have had died in the migration. So here's a fresh pic from my Silvio. That liner is just completing it's second season. Between outdoors and trainer time there are about 4000 miles on that one. I will probably put a fresh one on in spring but that's mostly because I need a new FD cable. In the real non-picture world it's about 1.5 inches past the exit hole and past the point of contact with the BB. The liner has never shifted position while the cable connected.

This was originally suggested by @Andrew 1973 and it's never failed me. I tried a full housing once and it was a miserable failure.

IMG_4523.JPG
 
twhbent

twhbent

Active Member
Ratz,
Thank you for the detailed steps. I will contact the LBS to see if they have the recommended equipment and if not I will search on-line.
The worst case scenario is they have neither . Hopefully they at least have the 4th hand tool. I store my bike overhead on a pulley system
which can temporarily act as a bike stand if the LBS doesn't have it and I need to order on line.
I will watch and rewatch the corresponding video supplied.
Also I do have the cable liner per the picture already installed and in great shape. It is now a waiting game for the LBS to open and hopefully have the needed equipment on hand
for purchase.

Jond,
Thank you for your assistance also.

I will keep this post informed with my progress. This will be a valuable learning experience for the future. I am also enrolled in 2 different bicycle repair classes that will
cover brakes,derailleur etc installation and adjustment.

The bike shop opens at 9am so I will have the phone and number in hand.

Once again everyone, THANK YOU.

Tony.
 
twhbent

twhbent

Active Member
Well as luck would have it, the bike shop didn't have the Park BT-2 4th hand tool in stock.
As I have somewhat of a bike stand(pulley storage system) I decided to make an attempt adjusting the f/d after watching the video and following Mr. Ratz's suggestions.
After approx 10 mins. of adjusting the shifting appears to be back to normal. I will give it a road test later today. Woohoo, can't believe the problem was corrected in such a short time frame. Sure beats spending hours on the road to and from the shop.
The next step is searching/ordering the tools Ratz recommended. That is a job for later in the day after the test ride.

THANK YOU MR. RATZ.

Tony.
 
ratz

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
twhbent

twhbent

Active Member
Just completed first ride after conquering my front derailleur issue,( with the help from the Cruzbike family).
Shifting worked great, purred like a kitten.
Ratz, thanks for the tip regarding the brakes. You remind me of a Tennessee Tuxedo cartoon character named if I remember correctly PHINEAS J. WHOOPEE.
He was the master of everything.
Thanks for all the help.
 
jond

jond

Zen MBB Master
twhbent said:
Just completed first ride after conquering my front derailleur issue,( with the help from the Cruzbike family).
Shifting worked great, purred like a kitten.
Ratz, thanks for the tip regarding the brakes. You remind me of a Tennessee Tuxedo cartoon character named if I remember correctly PHINEAS J. WHOOPEE.
He was the master of everything.
Thanks for all the help.
Click to expand...

well done. now that you have seen the benefit of tinkering yourself with a little research you will never ever have to use a so called pro bike mechanic again. do it yourself and do it right. lots of fun too. if you do not have a chain check tool whilst ordering tools get one of those too.also a cheap shimanon based bike mech tool kit can be had for a hundred dollars or so.
welcome to tinkering.
 
twhbent

twhbent

Active Member
Another successful ride today of 50+miles and no problems(woohoo).
Yes Jond and RR, the tinkering is addictive. It's the self satisfaction you feel when a task is completed correctly.
Jond thanks for the recommendation on the chain check tool, it is now on the list of tools to add.
 
ratz

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
bazzawill said:
How is the Jagwire brake tuner different from doing the same against the rim only?
Click to expand...

As happy said; brake pads need a toe in angle to work really well. The difference between correct and not is stunning. Once you've set a pair of brake pads with the Jagwire tuner you'll never not use one. Also make the whole process take 3-5 minutes to get a perfect adjustment. I was a skeptic; but they were too cheap not to try based on the source I get the recommendation from. Did my first set; had my OMG moment and never looked back.
 
twhbent

twhbent

Active Member
Well ReklinedRider, I didn't listen to your advice(not a bad thing) in regards to tinkering and now wanting to take the plunge and purchase/install Q-Rings.
I currently have a 53/39t(130 BCD+11/28 cassette) set up as mentioned earlier and thinking that the 53/39 ? is what I will purchase. My riding area is flat/to rolling hills(central Illinois). Although riding in a more hilly terrain is not out of the possibilities in the future. So if anyone would like to help me spend some of my money I would welcome any suggestions to Q-Ring size,chain type(KMZ?), etc. and anything else that would be beneficial. Also a source to purchase these items from.
Let the suggestion($$$$$$$) begin, thanks.
 
ratz

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
twohubs.com
http://www.twohubs.com/Product/Rotor/Rotor-q-ring-aero-chainrings/728622

130BCD you get to choose 50,52,53,54,55 for you big ring and 39 or 42 for little
110BCD (recommend even in flat land) you get to choose 50, 52, 53 big ring, and 34,36,38 little ring.

KMC 11sp or 10sp SLX chain will work nice.

A 53T Qring drives the bike like a 56T under power stroke and a 51T in the dead spot; That's why I personally feel a 110BCD crank give you more adjustability for trips to foreign terrain if that matters to you.
 
twhbent

twhbent

Active Member
Mr. Ratz(BOB), thank you for your input. Your 110 BCD is probably the best bet for today and in the future. Makes sense to cover both types of terrain with the single upgrade.
If I understand correctly, I will also need to purchase a crank that is 110 BCD? My current set up on the Vendetta is a 175mm Sram Force. My Metaphysics(did I say that) has a 165mm crank and not sure if I can tell a difference between the two. So my next question is, what type/brand/length of crank is recommended by OUR experienced professionals
here on the forum? Appears that I will be picking up those aluminum cans 24/7 now to cover the $$$$$$$. Thanks again, off into the night looking for those cans.
 
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