I rode it

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bladderhead's picture
bladderhead
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I have an announcement:

I RODE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not very far, but I went round some corners.

 

cplager's picture
cplager
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Dude! Nicely done!

Dude!

Nicely done!

Eric Winn's picture
Eric Winn
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YAAAAAAAYYYYY! Good on you, I

YAAAAAAAYYYYY!

Good on you, I think you'll have a blast.

Cheers,

-Eric
 

Ivan's picture
Ivan
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That sounds like my first

That sounds like my first week on Silvio too! Now at 8 months I am just starting to be able to ride without hands but not steadily yet.  So keep going!! You will get there! 

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SINGAPORE | Silvio 2.0 | Brompton S2L-X | Silvio Photoshoot | Silvio Photo Chronicles

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I am surprised at how easy it

I am surprised at how easy it is.  I think that on the conversion-kit, I had a problem with the seat-height.  All those on the conversion-kit forum who say you should look at the donor's crossbar are right.  The Silvio seat is just a bit higher than the Grasshopper, as is the seat angle, so it feels very similar.  I hardly seem to notice the bike bending in the middle.  I really did with the conversion-kit.

I can't do no-hands yet, but I have relaxed hands, not a death-grip.  I seem to be doing a mixture of pedal-steer and conventional steering.  It works for me, unless I go really fast, so I don't go really fast.  Getting away from a standing start is not perfect yet, but almost.

It is easier to mount and dismount than the conversion-kit.

I got fed up with waiting for White Industries to make a XD driver body, so I my drive-train is a bit of a lash-up.  I have Sram XX1 crankset, but I got a cheap 8 speed cassette and shifter and chain for now, and a Suntour derailleur which I had in the shed.  The chain makes lots of noises, but doesn't jump at all.

I had a bit of a scare.  I was turning right into a main road, which in the UK means crossing the carriageway.  Wheel-spin.  Will that be an issue in future?  The reason was that it had recently been raining and the road was wet.

That reminds me, I must investigate mud-guards.

Ivan's picture
Ivan
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Wheel spin can always happen

Wheel spin can always happen when it's wet or on sand. As you get more confident it won't bother you even when it happens momentarily in traffic. You will instantly adjust and it slows you down only for a fraction of a second. 

I have Crud RoadRacer fenders on my Silvio 2. I frequently have wet roads so they come very handy and they look great. Others have chosen other fender brands. The Cruds are the only ones that can fit under the fork and caliper brakes. 

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SINGAPORE | Silvio 2.0 | Brompton S2L-X | Silvio Photoshoot | Silvio Photo Chronicles

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Wheel spin can always happen

Wheel spin can always happen when it's wet or on sand. As you get more confident it won't bother you even when it happens momentarily in traffic. You will instantly adjust and it slows you down only for a fraction of a second. 

I agree with this. Laughing out loud

bladderhead's picture
bladderhead
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I am writing this on the

I am writing this on the computer at work, instead of working, in order to say I rode it to work.

I can do about 17mph on the flat.  Faster and I get a wobbly.  Coasting down a steep hill, the speedo said 31mph.  Very stable, until I tried to pedal.  Two things happened:  I spun out and had a big wobbly.  Scary.

I am spinning out at above 20mph.

Uphill is faster than the Grasshopper, and totally stable.  Actually, I prefer going up to going down.  How weird is that
 

Rick Youngblood's picture
Rick Youngblood
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I'm wondering if at faster

I'm wondering if at faster speed, you are holding with a death grip or your spin is not as controlled as with lower speeds.

I'm very-very stable at all speeds - below 20's above 20's. My fastest down hill is about 35 mph so far with some pedaling.

On the right roads and conditions, Cruzing at mid to low 20's is relaxed and stable.

Give it time and miles. Spinning out at 20, you must have low gears? I think spinning out can cause less control with the pedal-streer issue.

My gearing is 46(50)x34 chainrings and 11-42 cassette. I just put the 50 chainring back on. But even with the 46t and 13t I'm not spinning out on the flats.

Anyway, keep it up.

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~ Rick Youngblood
Redding, CA
2014 Silvio 2.1 & Vendetta TT

Ivan's picture
Ivan
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Well done! Spinning out is

Well done! Spinning out is tough to control. Be patient as that will take you many months. What is your gearing? Strange you are spinning out so low unless you are not accustomed to a moderately higher cadence. My gearing is 53/39 and 11-32. With a cadence of 90 I reach 55kph/34mph. I pedal up to that then I just coast. When I first learning to ride I could not stably pedal at 90 cadence though I could do it in my DF. 

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SINGAPORE | Silvio 2.0 | Brompton S2L-X | Silvio Photoshoot | Silvio Photo Chronicles

bladderhead's picture
bladderhead
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Spinning out because of the

Spinning out because of the single chainwheel, 38t.  A bit better now, since I discovered my cheap cassette and derailleur were only giving me 6 of the 8 gears.  Still hard to get into top or bottom.  I am wondering whether I should bother waiting for White Industries to make an XD driver body for my hub, or forget it and get Ultegra or something.

I used to have gear problems on my DF bike.  I could look between my feet and see which gear I was in, or even reach back and kick the derailleur.  Riding the Grasshopper, I have learned to love the IGH.  Click, you're in gear.

Ivan's picture
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Ooohh.. no wonder you are

Ooohh.. no wonder you are spinning out. I only use my 39T when I am on a steep hill, or on a recovery ride, or both.

Check out the wide range WiFli SRAM stuff. I have Force, but Rival is the best bang for buck or you can pick and choose. You can get 11-32 or really wide 11-36 and be set for any hill. While you could do similar with Shimano you would have to mix and match MTB and road stuff, whereas with SRAM you can simply everything Rival and be done at a good price point.

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Ivan...I wasn't aware that

Ivan...I wasn't aware that SRAM offered WiFLi in anything bigger than a 32T cassette or the derailleur to handle it.

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Larry
Friendswood, TX (Houston Metro Area)

'13 Cruzbike Silvio 2.0 | '13 Barcroft Ti Virginia | '10 HP Velotechnik Scorpion FS | '10 Easy Racer Folding Ti-Rush | '02 Airborne Ti Carpe Diem

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Hi Larry, In addition to the

Hi Larry,

In addition to the official offerings, you can use the SRAM MTB derailleur with the road shifters, so you can get nice and long cages...  (I believe this is what Eric did).

Cheers,
  Charles

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Shhhhh there beeee wrabbits

In MTN bikes Sram has their X range rear derailleurs (X-5 thru X0 ) to a 36 tooth cog capacity.

36 tooth cassettes too

In ROAD they still market the WiFli with a 32 tooth cog capacity.

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WiFLi or Mountain

Larry,

The SRAM Road WiFL max out at 32T and works with the WiFL medium cage Derailleurs. As you probably know that's the 1070 and 1050 cassette series  You'll see the various sizes on the SRAM Road web page. However, if you go to the mountain section of the webpage you see that  the 1070 and 1050 are cross listed there; and they have the additional sizes of 12-36T. Those are the cassettes that work best with the SRAM road gear of olde (aka last year).

Depending on the Frame you might be able to get WiFL derailluer to work with the 36T, but it's going to be really tight. Looking at mine I don't think it would work reliably. Instead, you would want to find a Rival Long Cage Derailleur. They don't make that model any more; but there are tons of units still available in the wild brand new. A quick google turned up plenty of them new in the box.

SRAM dropped the Long Cage road derailluers in favor of the X-Series which are compatible with Road Shifters, and I expect people that want bigger than 32T will be heading that route. The clutch system can handle the chain length and potential slapping a lot better especially for sizes past 36T. I know Eric was running X Series pre crash with Brifters without an issue and he seemed to really like the clutch and locking pin as described in his threads.

As to gearing in general.  I'm not sure how low we need to go on the Silvios.  I went pretty low and almost under shot my needs. I have a 52/36 x 110 BCD x 165mm cranks on the front and a 11-32T on the back. I use the lowest gear only on  > 10% grades and then I am so close to stalling speed 2-3mph at 60-70 RPMs that I am not sure I could use any more gears without tipping over. I put a 50/34 x 110BCD x 165 cranks with the 11-32T on Mrs Ratz's bike. At this point I am not really sure she is ever going to need the lowest gear
 

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I went pretty low and almost

I went pretty low and almost under shot my needs. I have a 52/36 x 110 BCD x 165mm cranks on the front and a 11-32T on the back. I use the lowest gear only on  > 10% grades and then I am so close to stalling speed 2-3mph at 60-70 RPMs

For what it's worth, I think this is something of a matter of preference whether your a spinner or masher. 

For really steep hills, I really like just spinning my way up.  So when I'm at 2-3 mph, I have a higher cadence (I'm in 24x32 with a cadence much closer to 100).

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Eric Winn
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SRAM X9 Type 2 medium cage,

SRAM X9 Type 2 medium cage, XG-1080 11-36 cassette, 53x39 crankset with 170mm cranks is what I'm running.

I'm comfortable using the 53T almost exclusively and still find myself spinning out sometimes at high speed. About the only time I ever use my 39T is when I'm on a steep or moderate grade that just keeps going and going (or on little hills toward the end of an ultra when I'm getting dog tired - grin). I have a route where it climbs something like 240 to 270 feet over 2 miles with 188 feet of the total in the last 7/10 of a mile. The last bit close to the top is quite steep. I'm usually in the 39T on the last half mile or so on this one.

I'm curious to see what kinds of readings I get from my RFLKT+ which can capture elevation, grade, temp, etc for this stretch as the numbers via Ride With GPS and Strava tend to bounce around a bit. I'd love to make this a key part of my regular riding but it is narrow, especially on the steepest section and the traffic is bad just with cars but also salted with Michigan double gravel haulers regularly enough that I only ride it when I can catch a really light traffic period with good weather.

-Eric
 

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I went pretty low and almost

I went pretty low and almost under shot my needs. I have a 52/36 x 110 BCD x 165mm cranks on the front and a 11-32T on the back. I use the lowest gear only on  > 10% grades and then I am so close to stalling speed 2-3mph at 60-70 RPMs

For what it's worth, I think this is something of a matter of preference whether your a spinner or masher. 

For really steep hills, I really like just spinning my way up.  So when I'm at 2-3 mph, I have a higher cadence (I'm in 24x32 with a cadence much closer to 100).

Charles, definitely agree but I'm no masher (althought the Silvio wants to make me one.... Little Ring? What little Ring?)...Any how when I have to use that granny gear it's because I probably bonked. Right now I can spin the 24T, 26T and the 28T at 100rpm just fine although I am admittedly not that stable just yet spinning, doing that the Silvio climbs like a goat; that 32T really is the oops gear and I didn't expect that to be true. I probably I should make the point as follows. "Give a DF frame and a Cruzbike Silvio with the exact same gearing, I can climb a steeper and longer hill with the Silvio" I think our Recumbent tendacy is to think OMG I need spinning gears on my bike. But it does appear that if you know what gears you like on a DF that then that same gearing will be good on a Silvio or Vendetta so we might not want to over think it. I believe John and Jim have been telling us that for awhile too. I do like my gearing but I probably did over think it a bit.

Eric, dude that's a long crank for your stature but if it works.  :)  You still liking the Clutch Derailleur?

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Eric Winn
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Oddly the 170mm cranks on the

Oddly the 170mm cranks on the V feels better to me than the 155mm cranks on the Quest. I was going to go with 165mm or maybe shorter on the V but they weren't as readily available so I thought I'd give the 170s a try and go shorter later if necessary. So far lots of miles and no issues. Got a little knee soreness at last year's N24HC but I was pushing hard to make up time lost replacing my BB after the 70 mile mark. None since then.

I'll see how I feel after this year's N24HC - a lot more hilly around Middleville than Sebring. Not likely to change size now unless something dramatic happens as my left crank is a Stages power meter.

My usual stomping grounds are similar in hills to Middleville, MI but in general a bit less hilly unless I hit the hill on Kensington road a bunch. I think that one is bigger than anything on the N24HC route.

The X9 Type 2 clutch with lockout pin is da bomb! Great little (medium cage) RD.  Wheel r?is much, much easier. Seems to dampening chain gyrations a bunch too and shifting feels pretty smooth.

-Eric
 

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Every time I get in these

Every time I get in these discussions I initially forget that the reason I couldn't mix/match road and MTB is because I went with the SRAM 22 (11 speed cassette) and there currently is no compatible 11 speed MTB stuff.

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Larry
Friendswood, TX (Houston Metro Area)

'13 Cruzbike Silvio 2.0 | '13 Barcroft Ti Virginia | '10 HP Velotechnik Scorpion FS | '10 Easy Racer Folding Ti-Rush | '02 Airborne Ti Carpe Diem

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Catch 22

Opps Larry, yep that's an issue. ..or... maybe not.... Does Frankenbike bother you?

If not; then you could cheat for now. The Derailleur doesn't control the travel increments aka the indexing, the shifter does. SRAM shifters are all Linear cable pulls that is why you can interchange them. I'm 90% certain the 22's are still linear pull. If anyone knows otherwise please correct me..... There's enough max and min adjust in any Derailleur to go that full width of the cassette; so it should works just fine; if I'm correct about the linear pull on the brifters.

So if you put a WiFLi 11-32 cassette on it's geared 11,12,13,14,15,17,19,22,25,28,32. With a front 34 or 36 that is a pretty darn wide gear range.  You can also swap the 15T sprocket for a 16T.  I think is wise for most mortal people to have 16,17 in there. 15,17 is a 83-96 rpm jump. The 14,16,17 tends to give nice clean 80, 88, 96 rpm jumps; that much more linear, never understood them keeping the 15 over the 16.... but I'm no engineer....

Now Granted you can't yet run the 36 ones because 22 gear ones don't ....... oh what you can cheat again You probably could take the BASE sprocket from a mountain cassette and combine it with the rest of the road sprockets. It's definitely Frankenbike but it should fit if you leave off the spacer by the spokes and add a plastic over-shift guard on the spoke side. I wouldd wager the shift step between the road and mountain sprockets might be noisy since the teeth wouldn't be aligned exactly; but it'll still shift through it just fine; bikes did not always have these computer shaped teeth and we still shifted them just fine.

 

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"I went pretty low and almost

"I went pretty low and almost under shot my needs. I have a 52/36 x 110 BCD x 165mm cranks on the front and a 11-32T on the back. I use the lowest gear only on  > 10% grades and then I am so close to stalling speed 2-3mph at 60-70 RPMs"

you may need to re-evaluate your cadence - 36 x 32 @ 60 - 70 rpm is 5 - 6 mph (assuming 700c).
if your speed is 2 - 3 mph with 36 x 32, you are probably still over-geared. 
 

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11-speed Ultegra!!

I changed to 11-speed Shimano, 53/39 rings, 11-32 cassette, 170mm cranks. What a fantastic range of gearing! I've seen 36 mph down hill, coasting, and then when resuming to spin, I start out slowly and eventually "catch up" to the needed spin rate. That seems to control the wobblies for me.

I have to say, that new Ultegra 6800 11-spd is a work of art. It shifts precisely, tuned perfectly in about 8 minutes after install, and runs true! the gearing fits all situations I've come up to so far, but that granny combo, 39x32, really takes some concentration to keep things going straight.

I couldn't' find an 11-speed shimano free hub that would fit on the cruzbike Aero 67s wheels, so I had to go with something else. Opted for a new Ultergra 6800 wheelset - way nice! I mounted Conti's 4000S II tires, 25mm, with True Goo self sealing tubes. Very smooth ride. and BTW, did NOT take any frame mods to clear the 11spd chain. This is on my Silvio 1.0.

I will post pix in a separate post for enquiring minds.

Cheers.

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I thought I would give you

I thought I would give you the story so far.

Synopsis:  Problems, mostly of my own making, gradually getting sorted out.  I think.

Now for the boring details.

I wanted disk brakes and IGH, so I all I got from Mr Tolhurst was the frame, none of the other bits.

I really wanted the IGH, but after discovering they don't fit I did some inadequate internet research.  Inadequate internet research seems to be a recurring theme in my life.

I discovered the Sram XX1 gears, and I was seduced by the idea of having only one chainwheel.  I got the White Industries 130 disk hub.  I asked White if I could fit XX1 on this and got a vaguely positive reply, so I went ahead and bought all the XX1 parts.  It turned out that the freehub body did not fit the XX1 cassette.  I sent White a message about this and they said they would start manufacturing a compatible freehub soon.  I used the hub, and decided to get some random cheap gears as a stopgap.

I then found that the diameter of the Cruzbike handlebars was too big to fit the brake levers I had bought.  I got some cheap straight bars which worked.  At least I was now riding the bike.  Eventually I changed to these bars, which I already had in the shed.

I needed two sets of shims to make this fit. rear

The main problem now is the gears.  I put on an 8-speed cassette which did not have nearly enough range, so I had to get a double chainwheel.  I still don't want to spend much money, because I am still hoping White will come up with the goods.  The chain keeps dropping.  On the way to work, it dropped three times.  When it goes, usually it gets somehow jammed between the chainwheel and the crank and takes ages to unjam.  I can't stand it, so I for the moment I have given up using the Silvio for long journeys and am using the Grasshopper instead.  About a week ago I sent White a message asking when the freehub body would be available.  They said a month's time.  I don't want to spend much more money on different gears and I still want to avoid a double chainwheel, but I am getting fed-up with waiting for White.  They have been saying "next month" for three months.

That is the story so far.

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1happyreader
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I know it's orange, but.

Bladderhead, I know it's orange, but.

Sell the Silvio frameset.

buy a Quest with.... disk brakes, a single chainring, and 135mm fork spacing.

while riding the fully functional Quest.

sell your other components

save up for the IGH of your dreams.

 

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Progress.  I think.  I sent

Progress.  I think.  I sent White a message and they said they have just manufactured the first batch of xx1 freehub body.  I could not find it in any online shops, but I phoned a shop called Sideways Cycles.  They can get it for me.  About 4 weeks, they say.  So I will get it, eventually.

For now, I will continue using the rubbish gears I have.  The bike is great.  Goes like a rocket.  I feel like Lance Armstrong.

As long as I stay on the small chainring.
 

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New freewheel derailleur and

New freewheel derailleur and I adjusted the chainwheel one.  I have to wait another month to get the XX1 fitted on, but I am riding it more.  I have been using it to go to the shops.  Hard to carry stuff.  I am going to have to look at the bag-related threads on this forum.

Still hard to manoevre at slow speed.  I have found that from going shopping.  Going to have to practice more.
 

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Sideways Cycles says the

Sideways Cycles says the XX1 driver body is on its way.  I was starting to find that the seat felt a bit weird.  I had a conversion but I un-converted it, so I put the bum-half of the conversion seat on the Silvio.  I was sliding forwards, but that is solved.  Conversion seat is wider and longer and curved.  I drilled extra holes in it and bolted it to the sticky-out bracket things on the Silvio body.

 

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It seems to improve the

It seems to improve the handling. Don't know why.  Also more speed, I think, but my speedo broke yesterday.