Heads up; Flo Wheels are back in stock

[ratz]

My FLO 60 and 45 are carbon.

Ok good to know; must be limited to the 90mm. I believe @trplay is using the Aluminum ones with carbon fairing without a problem.

 

[ratz]

This question always comes up when I am riding. At my cruising speeds 16-20 mph with occasional speed bursts up to 30, wind causes nothing more than a slight wobble. Besides, didn't Jim Parker do a report on Maria using full disc's in 25 mph gusts? I can recall at one time the consensus in recumbent land was a rear disc provided stability in wind.

That was discussed and it was interesting when the FLO guys were interviewed jump to minute 39:00 for that topic.
https://soundcloud.com/trainerroad/...trainerroad-podcast-special-guest-flo-cycling

(eagerly awaiting The Ratz carbon issue to see if it holds

We will see; it has been crickets so far; but they were out at Kona for the ironman world championships so I was expecting a delay. Not going to worry unless I don't hear anything by Monday. First contact was by back channels about 4-5 days ago as the problem was becoming apparent; and the official re-request for help on official channels last night. When we first placed the order; one of the wheelsets got "lost" and not shipped; they fixed that promptly so that is a good sign. What I am really curious is whether this will be sorry it does not work or an investigation of why it's not working. Pretty hard to make a "tubeless ready" performance wheel and not have it work with the Pro One. Until today that was really the best performance Tubeless. But now there is this..... http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/hutchinson-fusion-5-galactik-2017 I suppose I could try that tire but that leaves me with a bunch of unused Pro Ones and more expense.

 

[ratz]

As the Flo guys stated the front wheel is on a rotating axis with your hands on the handlebars. I would assume in the case of Cruzbikes having your feet to also stabilize that rotating axis will make the wobble less. I don't know but there aren't many people riding 90's on Cruzbikes to ask. I've been on mine since 2012. In fact I chose to ride 90's front and back on the ride to Jacksonville two days before hurricane Matthew (windy). I wanted the push, worked for me.

that's what I got from it too; and IIRC that was Jim's theory too; he's not opposed to dual disc on the correct course for that reason.

 

[RojoRacing]

My 33 feels worlds better then my 66 up front when descending the mountain with massive gusts. I feel you guys may just not be experiencing my riding conditions. As far as the rear goes I only notice a minor difference with the full disc. The full disc is not more stable, it's simply not worse by enough to complain about.

 

[RojoRacing]

I discounted your riding style in my first post. Your riding speeds change the dynamics a lot. When you ride the Blue ridge parkway/ skyline drive its nothing but up one climb down to the next "Gap" back up, then another Gap. These Gaps often have nasty cross winds. Yep, probably not a good choice to have 90's there. The wise will exercise caution on them no matter their wheel size. The fool will also learn to use caution. It just takes him a bit longer to figure it out.

Yeah I did catch your mention about my slightly unique riding conditions. It just seemed like you guys started heading off on a tangent that was stating the CruzBike could handle deep wheels up front with not ill effects so I just wanted to retouch on my experiences for reference. With no wind I see zero reason not to run front and rear disc wheels even on a course with lots of cornering because it's only the cross wind that messes with those wheels.

 

[ratz]

. It just seemed like you guys started heading off on a tangent that was stating the CruzBike could handle deep wheels up front with not ill effects so I just wanted to retouch on my experiences for reference.

on the correct course

Nope we get that. Not recommend for bombing down hill when you go in and out of tree cover into cross winds. We have similar problems around here with the ever present jet-stream 15 mph wind speed deltas from gusts isn't uncommon here; so when you head out in a 8 mph wind you might run into 23mph moments.

I think the key point in that audio was that a big part of the rational for running mixed wheels like 60x40 is to cut down on nose steering input. Cruzbike is going to be less affected by that than say a TT-bike under the same condition; thanks to the legs stabilizing the front. Both bikes are still going to be susceptible to the entire bike getting shoved 3 ft to the left or right. Or in other words if a 60x40 was fine for the conditions on a V20, then a 60x60 probably is equally good. If a 90x60 is good that day a 90x90 might actually be equally good, and if a Discx60 is good a Disc x Disc might be good. There are still days around here where a 40x40 is the only choice.

 

[RojoRacing]

Well when I run my 66x66 setup on my DF I get blown around but because of the self straitening characteristics of the DF design the bike always returns to center quickly enough with little to no input. The same wheels on the V and I have to be so much more on hand to correct after a gust due to the V sensitive and exaggerated steering arc from even the tiniest inputs. I know TT bikes are poor in a cross wind if in the TT position but a regular DF is nothing like that.

Personally I don't see the CruzBike design of having your legs out front as a benefit to crosswind stability. I think just the opposite as your legs are heavy and although it takes energy to move that weight it also takes time to stop that same weight from moving after it gets pushed.

I really wish I had a deep front wheel to ride in the upcoming 24hr but it's hard to find a deep wider wheel that disc brake compatible. I guess I could have ordered another 55mm drive wheel to swap with my 33mm but it's too late now.

 

[RojoRacing]

I also think in all but hurricane winds you can run a disc rear wheel. Like I always tell people, most of the problem people have with a rear disc in a cross wind is probably caused by also increasing the depth of the front wheel at the same time. Leave the disc on the rear and just swap the front. If it's super windy like my area run 33xdisc if it's only breezy then go ahead and toss that 66xdisc setup on and if the rare occasion of zero wind then yeah try the uber deep 90mm front and enjoy the speed.

Honestly how many people have you seen running a 33mm or less front and a full disc rear? Every picture with a disc in the rear has at least a 60mm in the front.

 

[super slim]

I don't know if the 45 degree seat of the Silvio V1.0, with 30 mm deep rims, helps with wind gust stability, but I took up 1/3 to 1/4 the space of DF riders on Cycle Oregon 2013, when overtaking on very gusty days!
OR does being a little Clydesdale rider make a big difference??

 

[ratz]

I really wish I had a deep front wheel to ride in the upcoming 24hr but it's hard to find a deep wider wheel that disc brake compatible. I guess I could have ordered another 55mm drive wheel to swap with my 33mm but it's too late now.

If you hang tough until next month, you maybe able to solve that goal for the future. FLO announced they will be working with a US based wheel builder to take their rims and specs to build disc brake version on special order starting next month.

 

[ratz]

I don't know if the 45 degree seat of the Silvio V1.0, with 30 mm deep rims, helps with wind gust stability, but I took up 1/3 to 1/4 the space of DF riders on Cycle Oregon 2013, when overtaking on very gusty days!
OR does being a little Clydesdale rider make a big difference??

Rider weight is a huge factor, when Pluckyblond and I get to ride together it is very obvious.

 

[ratz]

Hutchinson Fusion 5 Tubeless Galactik Road Tire, 23mm and 25mm ordered. At ⅔ the price of a PRO One and at 0.9 watts less cdr perhaps they will work on the Flo wheel and the should answer the question of whether the Schwable is the problem or the wheel is the problem.

 

[ratz]

This is the cursed project. Ordered more RIM tape to test the Hutchinson's when they get here. (Think I have gone through 3 rolls and the stuff isn't cheap) and today the order arrives and low and behold apparently Schwalbe rim tape looks a lot like the Park Tool PP-1.2 Hydraulic Brake Piston Press tools.... Some where someone is trying to setup his hydralic CX Bike and is very confused.

 

[RojoRacing]

Just buy gorilla duct tape and tear it to your desired perfect width every time. So much cheaper and easier to work with.

 

[BJ686]

Just a heads up---just noticed that the Flo website is now offering a limited selection of demo and blemished wheels for sale at a discount.

 

[ratz]

Of for the time being consider the FLO90 not tubeless compatible. They aren't sure what's up; they are going to take a look at my rims and figure out if it is a one time hiccup (unlikely it's four rims), a completely bad batch, or a design in need of correction. Going to be a few months before we know.

 

[ratz]

Update on this. My Flo-90s are at the factory. Engineers have confirmed what I found 90Carbons are not working with tubeless tires. Now they are trying to figure out how to fix that.

 

[ratz]

Word received today the factory has corrected the problem with 90mm carbon wheels and tubeless. Manufacturing is occurring and maybe just maybe I'll have them with me for Sebring

 

[ratz]

Just got the new test FLO-90 all carbon wheel on Tuesday.
This one is to correct the problem discovered in November.

The results are in:

• 1 wrap of Schwalbe tubeless tape
• 1 brand new Pro One 700x25c
• Dry mounted; seated with just 110psi
• Perfect seal without sealant
• The wheel is solid and stable. no flex

The 25c sits at about 0.5mm narrower than the rim itself making it likely nice and aero. Comparing this wheel to the other one; the bead bed is much cleaner and looks much more textbook tubeless in design.

So we have a winner.

 

[super slim]

Just got the mew test FLO-90 all carbon wheel on Tuesday.
This one is to correct the problem discovered in November.

The results are in:

• 1 wrap of Schwalbe tubeless tape
• 1 brand new Pro One 700x25c
• Dry mounted; seated with just 110psi
• Perfect seal without sealant
• The wheel is solid and stable. no flex

The 25c sits at about 0.5mm narrower than the rim itself making it likely nice and aero. Comparing this wheel to the other one; the bead bed is much cleaner and looks much more textbook tubeless in design.

So we have a winner.

Father Christmas has made an early present run!!!
Is it STILL snowing near the North Pole?