New Vendetta

super slim

Zen MBB Master
How much faster down the same hill is the Vendetta than the Bacchetta Aero, as from this attached photo, the V with the original seat, LOOKS a lot more Aero, and uncluttered, even with Larry O in the picture!
I just realised why he looks neater!!!
He has 110 mm cranks for his short legs, compared to the 175 mm cranks on the Encore, and look at the difference of the knee heights!
He also has a standard seat and headrest so his shoulders are not turned up 10 degrees, and his head is 10+ degrees off vertical, compared to the Encore guy who's head is vertical!

IMG_1402.JPG
 

Kerry Kerr

Active Member
How much faster down the same hill is the Vendetta than the Bacchetta Aero, as from this attached photo, the V with the original seat, LOOKS a lot more Aero, and uncluttered, even with Larry O in the picture!
I just realised why he looks neater!!!
He has 110 mm cranks for his short legs, compared to the 175 mm cranks on the Encore, and look at the difference of the knee heights!
He also has a standard seat and headrest so his shoulders are not turned up 10 degrees, and his head is 10+ degrees off vertical, compared to the Encore guy who's head is vertical!

View attachment 4296
Right now on the same downhill, its nearly 3mph faster. I'm not pedaling as long into the downhill and back in at the bottom because I'm still squirrelly. I've been riding the V exclusively the last week, against advice, but I rode both during the first few days so I could ride some miles. Now, I'm so much more comfortable, tackled the big hills that I wondered about, and have just been riding. It is faster, I feel really good after 50 miles riding so far on my longest ride , I've had multiple levels fused in my back and all recumbents feel good....this one just as good if not better.

Its stiffer, figuring out the tire combo, tire pressure happy place. We're starting to love each other!
 

super slim

Zen MBB Master
Kerry , Thanks for the speed improvement info!!!
It looks as though you are settling into the V very quickly!!!
Being able to use your upper body and 5 kph speed increase on the flats, were the two biggest improvements for me, coming from a trike!
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
This would be the point in the game where I stop by and said; now would be a good time to go to a parking lot and do a lot of figure-8's at slow speed and how well you can control the bike 1 handed with either hand. If it's squirrelly it's because the low speed practice is lacking and no amount of high speed mileage will correct that. Learn how to do the figure-8's such that the body is not connected to the bike. Sit up; turn right; leave upper body left; and then the reverse.
 

super slim

Zen MBB Master
Ratz what REtraining exercises would you recommend for a slightly older rider, going from a Silvio V1.0 45 deg seat to a S30 28 deg?
 

Kerry Kerr

Active Member
hey Ratz, thanks for the advice, I get it! I had to think through why the slow one handed figure 8's made sense relative to high speed wobble when I try to start pedaling at a faster speed. That works. I'm feeling really much better at my cadence coming to where I normally spin and engaging at a higher speed, say over 30 to start back pedaling and its better! But my sphincter is tight, not sure what that is because Im not a doctor but it means it has my attention. But the slow 8's make sense!

Other question, what tire pressure, rim width, tire do you find people using. I ride about half of my miles on country roads that are rough in places, and I've actually felt like Im bouncing at times over several close bumps( I know, avoid them). What works and is fast?

Thanks again for all the great info! I'm stoked about this bike but more so, on the help from everyone! Very cool!

kk
 

Kerry Kerr

Active Member
I am using Easton EC90 55mm with 23x700 continentals. I started out 100 psi front and rear. Now 95f/90 rear.
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
I am using Easton EC90 55mm with 23x700 continentals. I started out 100 psi front and rear. Now 95f/90 rear.

Well you are set on those wheels; they are 19mm internal width; and tubeless ready.

To know your optimal tire size for Aero you have to buy the tires and try them, nothing mounts the same brand to brand even if the size is supposedly the same.

What I would do would be:

1) Get your next tires as Qty 1 Schwalbe Pro One in 700x23c and Qty 1 Pro One in 700x25
2) Mount them tubeless; the 23c on the front and the 25c on the back.
3) After mounting use a calipers to measure to see if both the tires when mounted at 85psi are wider than the physical rim
3a) If the 23c is not and the 25c is then run that way 23 front 25 rear
3b) If the 25c is equal or less than the rim width mounted then in the future run 25 all around.

With that protocol you don't waste money on the wrong tires.

Pressure will depend on weight; most people can ride 90psi front 85 psi rear; and you can go lower if you are lighter; you do have to get use to the front steering with the lower pressure; it's more responsive and that takes some adjustment.
 

Kerry Kerr

Active Member
Well you are set on those wheels; they are 19mm internal width; and tubeless ready.

To know your optimal tire size for Aero you have to buy the tires and try them, nothing mounts the same brand to brand even if the size is supposedly the same.

What I would do would be:

1) Get your next tires as Qty 1 Schwalbe Pro One in 700x23c and Qty 1 Pro One in 700x25
2) Mount them tubeless; the 23c on the front and the 25c on the back.
3) After mounting use a calipers to measure to see if both the tires when mounted at 85psi are wider than the physical rim
3a) If the 23c is not and the 25c is then run that way 23 front 25 rear
3b) If the 25c is equal or less than the rim width mounted then in the future run 25 all around.

With that protocol you don't waste money on the wrong tires.

Pressure will depend on weight; most people can ride 90psi front 85 psi rear; and you can go lower if you are lighter; you do have to get use to the front steering with the lower pressure; it's more responsive and that takes some adjustment.
Ok thanks
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
I'm putting these wheels back on the Bacchetta. I didn't make that clear, so any other thoughts?

Oh you want to get new wheels is that correct? If that's the case I would probably stall; if you noticed in Jim's Blog on the wind tunnel he mentioned they will be offering Boyd wheels in the near future (where near is undefined officially); If past Cruzbike trends hold they will likely be available for new bike buyers or those that already own the bikes as an upgrade; and they will probably be hard to beat price/quality wise.

Beyond that; you want at least 17mm internal rim width; 19mm is better; and matching those to 25mm and 29mm external width. A good benchmark is always to check Reynolds Wheels; they invented the Carbon clincher and after a couple bad years of no development have come roaring back with a focus on tubeless. Their thre tire models; Assualt, Strike and Aero 80 are good benchmarks for the correct dimensions and their website has the most useful diagrams. Review those and you can use that info to shop the other major makes, Zipp, Enve, Boyd, HED, Easton, DT Swiiss, Velocity, Shimano and probably a bunch more I'm forgetting.

Example Reynolds diagram found here: https://www.reynoldscycling.com/wheels/Strike_V3
 

Kerry Kerr

Active Member
Oh you want to get new wheels is that correct? If that's the case I would probably stall; if you noticed in Jim's Blog on the wind tunnel he mentioned they will be offering Boyd wheels in the near future (where near is undefined officially); If past Cruzbike trends hold they will likely be available for new bike buyers or those that already own the bikes as an upgrade; and they will probably be hard to beat price/quality wise.

Beyond that; you want at least 17mm internal rim width; 19mm is better; and matching those to 25mm and 29mm external width. A good benchmark is always to check Reynolds Wheels; they invented the Carbon clincher and after a couple bad years of no development have come roaring back with a focus on tubeless. Their thre tire models; Assualt, Strike and Aero 80 are good benchmarks for the correct dimensions and their website has the most useful diagrams. Review those and you can use that info to shop the other major makes, Zipp, Enve, Boyd, HED, Easton, DT Swiiss, Velocity, Shimano and probably a bunch more I'm forgetting.

Example Reynolds diagram found here: https://www.reynoldscycling.com/wheels/Strike_V3
Thanks yep , getting different wheels for the Cruz
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Thanks yep , getting different wheels for the Cruz

also consider your wind; if it blow alot 45mm on the front and 60mm the back; if it blows a little 60mm front and 90mm back, if it never blow, 90mm all around.
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
I have a V20 frame set arriving soon. I have yet to purchase my wheel set. Do you have any problems when its windy with crosswinds with the 55mm rims?

Thanks, Kurt

Hi Kurt,

Dual 55mm are a good first year combo in these parts. Year two you might want to go deeper on the rear wheel and you can test that easily by getting a $100 set of covers made for your rear wheel to make it a full disc. Try that for a bit; if it goes good you invest in the deeper back wheel. then you have multiple combinations you can run depending on the terrain and the weather.

Basically you won't be disappoint with 55mm it's hard to go wrong with those as long as they are a modern non-sharp-v design.
 

Kerry Kerr

Active Member
Hi Kurt,

Dual 55mm are a good first year combo in these parts. Year two you might want to go deeper on the rear wheel and you can test that easily by getting a $100 set of covers made for your rear wheel to make it a full disc. Try that for a bit; if it goes good you invest in the deeper back wheel. then you have multiple combinations you can run depending on the terrain and the weather.

Basically you won't be disappoint with 55mm it's hard to go wrong with those as long as they are a modern non-sharp-v design.
I've had these wheels for a little over a year and love them, rather have the 55 in winds that not. On the V I don't can't tell as much in crosswinds as I have on the Bacchetta. I am sure thats because of the position and being lower to the ground. I'm looking to put those back on the Bacchetta and buy another set of wheels for the V.
 

Kerry Kerr

Active Member
+1 on the video's yaw be different; once you get them figured out they are actually easier; because you can return them to "Default" then install and set; and boom done.

In your case with over shifts you need to turn your "upper limit screw" on the FD ¼ turn. Each quarter turn is 1mm of adjustment. Just do 1mm at a time until it stops over shifting. If you get to the point that it won't shift up you've gone too far. Now here are some tips.

1) You cable hosing will compress over the first 3 months; that means you will have to re-adjust the barrel adjuster over time to make up for the lost of housing length.

2) Once you get the limit screws dialed in; don't mess with them; use the barrel adjuster to fix, the limit screws don't get out of place; the housing is just compressing see item #1

3) If you fiddle too much don't be afraid to just do the full reset on the derailleur it is far faster.

Lastly the fastest way to save money is to get an inexpensive but good bike stand and slowly learn to be your own wrench. It's not only rewarding it's a huge money saver if you have more than 1 bike.

Then from the "i am riding stand point" as you debugg your FD shifting; it's always simple to just ever so slightly ease up on your foot pressure when you up shift; that will make the shifts more reliable and you can watch the chain climb up the ring; if it overshots; coast, down shift the front; back pedal about ⅛ a rotation and then start pedalling the chain will jump right back to the little ring. With practice you can get yourself out of just about any over shift situation; while you are learning to tune the derailleur this is a very valuable skill.

Also with sram I recommend adding one of these.
https://www.amazon.com/SRAM-Front-Derailleur-Chain-Spotter/dp/B008JEFQPS
you can find them cheaper if you look around.

then you never have to worry about a drop to the inside. We even run them on our e-tap electric stuff; just to be safe.


Got the Q ring humming. Thanks for the help!

Gotta confess! The V is so humbling at first, it takes your confidence away. With everything with me, too! Got in my head. Made me unsure. But reading the posts and replies from everyone has helped so much and now we are progressing nicely.

I read this weekend the start of the posts when Jason started riding, made me feel much better as I read his experience, and thought process through his riding. I really thought that because I had ridden the Bacchetta that it wouldn't be as hard as when I first started with it! Wrong... Ratz is right about the slow figure 8's one handed, wow!!! Im getting so much more comfortable with the V. The input and forum has really helped me so much.

This past weekend rode 50 with a buddy in 15mph headwind and crosswinds. scared the crap out of myself on some steep downhills, because its faster than me right now, but I am loving it. Im trying to be methodical ( read smart) in pushing it and stretching the limits but its becoming so much fun . Today rode a 18.3 mile route that on the Bacchetta in summer 85-90 degrees I will average over 19mph on this route, its great for me but doesn't happen a ton. Did it today at 57 degrees and averaged 19.4 today on the V, this thing is awesome... I still haven't gotten my cadence up to where it will be. But I will, this is fun! It makes me happy!
 

RojoRacing

Donut Powered Wise-guy
Right? everyone thinks I'm exaggerating my initial struggles with the bike considering what I can do with it now but those people haven't read my thread which is rather descriptive. Glad you can now see the light at the end of the tunnel and are making steady progress to the end.
 

super slim

Zen MBB Master
Right? everyone thinks I'm exaggerating my initial struggles with the bike considering what I can do with it now but those people haven't read my thread which is rather descriptive. Glad you can now see the light at the end of the tunnel and are making steady progress to the end.
Jason, you report was very detailed, analytical with a good understanding of YOUR dynamics, and the bikes, and concisely put!

Anyone would think that you are a engineering test rider for a motor bike racing team!!!!!
 
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